At what speed does VFR become too difficult?

[Contacttower]

Assuming one is flying around the packed airspace of Southern England at low level, trying to get words in edge ways, dodging this and that while trying to stay aware of your position with nothing but DR and the map.

At what speed does this simply become too difficult? At 100kts it's possible, but at 250kts say would it still be practical or would it just be a matter of time before you ended up busting airspace?

[S-Works]

the mob manage it at several hundred knots.

[llanfairpg]

We manage 280 kts on a clear day no probs, mostly inside zones, bit occasionally outside around 3000ft. It dosnt seem that fast if you do it often enough but it seems alarmingly slow when you get back into a C152!

[shortstripper]

Isn't the legal limit 250 knots anyway? I might be wrong, just seem to remember that figure (it's been a while since I did air law, and I doubt I could do 250 knots in my a/c even if I were to plummet toward a school )

SS

[llanfairpg]

You are quite correct, outside controlled airspace but not too many speed cameras up there yet but who knows with our Europen friends--Heil Europe Comrade

[PPRuNe Radar]

You are quite correct, outside controlled airspace but not too many speed cameras up there yet but who knows with our Europen friends--Heil Europe Comrade

Using that philosophy, it's probably ok to fly in Controlled Airspace above it's base without a clearance as long as you don't have Mode C. There's no policing after all

[llanfairpg]

Using that philosophy, it's probably ok to fly in Controlled Airspace above it's base without a clearance as long as you don't have Mode C. There's no policing after all

Youve lost me there and many of my colleagues I would suspect, but do consider that most airline pilots think that Aviation Law is an american film star.

[BEagle]

I once went from Dunsfold to Scampton via Greenham Common in a Hawk at 2-3000ft VFR.

Took about 25 min. Mostly at around 420 KIAS, but a bit quicker at times.

No GPS, no VOR - just map and stopwatch.

Lovely trip!!

[llanfairpg]

I say old chap, hope that was colour code blue?

[tmmorris]

They do say you haven't been properly lost until you've been lost at 420kts. Or a mile every 9 seconds or so.

Tim

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Using that philosophy, it's probably ok to fly in Controlled Airspace above it's base without a clearance as long as you don't have Mode C. There's no policing after all

Easy there Pprune Radar, you are picking on someone who is his own law and has the ability to be selective.

But for us commoner morons your point was well put.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Youve lost me there and many of my colleagues I would suspect, but do consider that most airline pilots think that Aviation Law is an american film star.

Not hard to understand your original position, which was breaking the 250 Knot legal limit was OK because it was not policed. My extension was that if you break one rule which isn't policed, then why won't your mentality let you break any number of others which are not policed. Your chances of being caught are going to be slim after all, unless you have an accident or incident.

It wouldn't be rocket science for the authorities to put in a 'speed limit' detector especially with Mode S, especially if it is to catch law breakers who break a law which is ostensibly there to provide a safe environment.

The 250Kts is probably an arbitrary figure, but if you want it changed to something higher, then why not provide the safety data that shows a higher speed is Ok and then lobby ICAO (or the CAA if you only want it in the UK) for a change ??

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Pprune Radar.....Danny sure has given us a great entertainment site...I just love it.

Maybe Ian thinks that flying 30 knots over the speed limit is OK as long as he is doing it into a head wind....The good part is as long as he is wearing his Hi Vis Vest he will be safe.

[llanfairpg]

Not hard to understand your original position, which was breaking the 250 Knot legal limit was OK because it was not policed. My extension was that if you break one rule which isn't policed, then why won't your mentality let you break any number of others which are not policed. Your chances of being caught are going to be slim after all, unless you have an accident or incident.

Its a good point but may be invalidated by the fact that I allways walk back to the terminal with my high viz jacket on (slowly)

[Islander2]

llanfairpg, please help me out on this. I'm struggling to reconcile your confession that:

We manage 280 kts on a clear day no probs, mostly inside zones, but occasionally outside around 3000ft ..... not too many speed cameras up there yet

with your holier-than-thou admonishment on the hi-vis jacket thread:

If you do not like rules dont fly, aviation is a rule based discipline.

Are we to understand that you believe statutory laws are there to be broken as long as you are unlikely to be caught, yet non-statutory, nonsensical 'rules' promoted by the burgeoning and frequently idiotic H&S industry are sacrosanct and to be observed without question?

[S-Works]

I just fell off my chair laughing. Between Chuck and Islander my day has been made. Thanks guys.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I just fell off my chair laughing. Between Chuck and Islander my day has been made. Thanks guys.

Your welcome Bose experience and age trumps ego every time.

Furthermore I'm to old a cat to be fu.ked by a kitten.

[llanfairpg]

Islander

Are we to understand that you believe statutory laws are there to be broken as long as you are unlikely to be caught, yet non-statutory, nonsensical 'rules' promoted by the burgeoning and frequently idiotic H&S industry are sacrosanct and to be observed without question?

No you are to understand that in order to position correctly for the approach at some airfields after being held up high in the airway by ATC it is necessary to sometimes exceed the speed limit outside controlled airspace by 30 kts to remove this excess height.

You are also to understand that as the commander of a public transport aircraft I alone decide on the best course of action in any given circumstance. I use the law as a guide, not a bible.

[llanfairpg]

I just fell off my chair laughing.

But stability has never been your strong point, has it?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I just fell off my chair laughing.

But stability has never been your strong point, has it?

A wise man knows when to quit......

Your lack of consistency and lame come backs are making a mockery of your colleagues in aviation...assuming you are in aviation.