logging tailwheel hours
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2007
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logging tailwheel hours
A friend has a tailwheel, and has asked if I want to do some flying.
I hold ppl A, but have no tailwheel endorsement - am I allowed to log the hours?
Sam.
I hold ppl A, but have no tailwheel endorsement - am I allowed to log the hours?
Sam.
Last edited by Sam Rutherford; 12th January 2008 at 08:18. Reason: to get email notification of any responses!
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: South Norfolk, England
Yes ... but in what capacity would you log them if you did?
You could log P u/t but not P1 as you can't fly solo ... but wait
You could agree prior to the flight to fly a portion of it in command which I think you could log P1, but then take off and and landing would have to be Pu/t ..... errr, I guess? Only one of you can log P1 and P2 is for the "big boys" with multi crew. I think a qualified pilot can log Pu/t with a non FI PPL, but a student can't.
Confusing innit?
You could log P u/t but not P1 as you can't fly solo ... but wait
You could agree prior to the flight to fly a portion of it in command which I think you could log P1, but then take off and and landing would have to be Pu/t ..... errr, I guess? Only one of you can log P1 and P2 is for the "big boys" with multi crew. I think a qualified pilot can log Pu/t with a non FI PPL, but a student can't.Confusing innit?
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
Confusing innit?
If your buddy is a tailwheel FI (or CRI, possibly?), then you can log Pu/t while he logs P1. Otherwise, I fear your logbook has to stay empty.
I've been in the exact same situation where a friend (who has a tailwheel endorsement) asked me to go for a ride in a Cup a month or two ago. Very interesting, loads of fun, but I've got nothing to show for it in my logbook.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Bournemouth
Agree with BackPacker 100%. You're not qualified to fly the aircraft, so unless your friend is qualified to instruct you on the aircraft, you can't log the time.
However, if you want to keep a record of your flight, LASORS allows you to record it in your logbook. Your capacity for the flight should be recorded as "SNY" (supernumary), and the hours must not be added to your totals.
Enjoy it!
FFF
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However, if you want to keep a record of your flight, LASORS allows you to record it in your logbook. Your capacity for the flight should be recorded as "SNY" (supernumary), and the hours must not be added to your totals.
Enjoy it!
FFF
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
Oh, man. The first spelling mistake I've made in months, and somebody notices...
Anyway, it was a Piper J3C Cub, PH-GEN. No saucers attached. I think it's actually fully original without any electrics (except a semi-portable radio on a battery), but it does have a tailwheel instead of a skid. (It's based at a field with tarmac, so I guess that makes sense.)
I now know what "adverse yaw" is...
Anyway, it was a Piper J3C Cub, PH-GEN. No saucers attached. I think it's actually fully original without any electrics (except a semi-portable radio on a battery), but it does have a tailwheel instead of a skid. (It's based at a field with tarmac, so I guess that makes sense.)
I now know what "adverse yaw" is...
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From: UK
LASORS allows you to record it in your logbook.
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Vancouver Island
All this talk about rules and regulations excites me, and makes me proud to be a member of a group who end up so paranoid they lose track of the simple fact tail wheel airplanes were the norm at one time....
Then came the nose wheel machines and the maintenance companies got a real boost in business with lots of bent fire walls to repair..
Then came the nose wheel machines and the maintenance companies got a real boost in business with lots of bent fire walls to repair..
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 12th January 2008 at 18:14.
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From: Not a million miles from EGTF
>>>All this talk about rules and regulations excites me, and makes me proud to be a member of a group who end up so paranoid they lose track of the simple fact tail wheel airplanes were the norm at one time....<<<<
Chuck
Very true, but as someone running a tailwheel group, I've been appalled at the lack of basic landing skill of nose-wheel trained pilots.
One has taken over 25 hours to be sent solo and another 15 hours and even now they still fail to make a decent round-out and touchdown.
I'm not paranoid, and let a lot of basic mistakes go, on the assumption that this is a way of them learning. I've been taken through a wire fence through faulty taxying technique and groundlooped through an inability to recognise a swing on touchdown - oh and these were instructors....
I'm seriously thinking of taking my 'baby' back into sole ownership so if mistakes are made, they are mine. I just can't trust some of the group to do it even half-decently
Chuck
Very true, but as someone running a tailwheel group, I've been appalled at the lack of basic landing skill of nose-wheel trained pilots.
One has taken over 25 hours to be sent solo and another 15 hours and even now they still fail to make a decent round-out and touchdown.
I'm not paranoid, and let a lot of basic mistakes go, on the assumption that this is a way of them learning. I've been taken through a wire fence through faulty taxying technique and groundlooped through an inability to recognise a swing on touchdown - oh and these were instructors....
I'm seriously thinking of taking my 'baby' back into sole ownership so if mistakes are made, they are mine. I just can't trust some of the group to do it even half-decently
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Not a million miles from EGTF
Much as I agree with you Chuck, they did hold an instructors ticket.
I have to say there was a wonderful feeling as my a/c slowed to walking pace then headed off at 90 degrees to the runway, narrowly missing a runway light.
After all the years of being humilated by instructors, just once to get my own back!!!!!
I have to say there was a wonderful feeling as my a/c slowed to walking pace then headed off at 90 degrees to the runway, narrowly missing a runway light.
After all the years of being humilated by instructors, just once to get my own back!!!!!
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Vancouver Island
After all the years of being humilated by instructors,
Anyone who teaches by humilitating their students is not an instructor, they are bullies who suffer from a lack of self confidence.
just once to get my own back!!!!!
The best way to handle a bully is smack them in the mouth with your fist....it is not PC but it is effective.
Anyone who teaches by humilitating their students is not an instructor, they are bullies who suffer from a lack of self confidence.
just once to get my own back!!!!!
The best way to handle a bully is smack them in the mouth with your fist....it is not PC but it is effective.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 12th January 2008 at 20:14.
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: UK
I learnt on tailwheel (or rather tailskid "DH82a") and have always landed tailwheel/nosewheel the same way ... or ways. Can't see what all the fuss is about to be honest.
Learn on a taildragger, and the aeroplane will not tolerate sloppy technique.
SSD
Fly Conventional Gear
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From: Winchester
One has taken over 25 hours to be sent solo and another 15 hours and even now they still fail to make a decent round-out and touchdown.
.
Learn on a taildragger, and the aeroplane will not tolerate sloppy technique.
Out of interest, what is the 'average' time required for a tail wheel endorsement? Vague ballpark?
