taking a door off before flight
taking a door off before flight
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You may find the aircraft has to be approved for this and there may be a stipulation that the pilot has experience of flying with a door removed . This may be covered in the A/C documentation , specifically its insurance . We take doors off an islander for photographic tasks but there are very specific conditions for doing so laid down in the manual .
I cannot say definitively but I would suggest that you cant just do it without prior approvals from somewhere.
I cannot say definitively but I would suggest that you cant just do it without prior approvals from somewhere.
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Depends what you are flying, the air worthiness division of the CAA would be best to advise. Seemingly you would be invalidating the C of A by removing part of the aircraft! (ask a parachute club)
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Why not use an a/c type with opening windows like the Cessna 150/152 or even better a Piper Cub? Great view out, with the wing on top out of the way. Probably cheaper to operate, too, than more modern types.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
Cheers,
TheOddOne
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Read the aircraft's POH. Some C152s (it may even be all of them but I'm not sure) are certified for flight with the doors removed. Flying with the windows open is certainly permitted. As others have said, you should also check the Insurance and also the Owner's SOPs.
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Sam,
Most common light aircraft of North American origin would not be permitted flight with a door off, unless a supplemental approval had been issued. I cannot speak for other types of aircraft. If door off flight is approved, this will be specifically described in the flight manual or supplement, along with any limitations. You would definately invalidate insurance doing this without approval, as the aircraft would not meet it's C of A requirements. Some aerobatic aircraft (C150 Aerobat comes to mind) have removable doors, but that does not mean that door off flight is approved. (If you decided to remove the door while airborne, we would presume that "flight" is no longer underway, and who cares then?)
I have specifically approved my C150 for single door off flight. The jump Cessnas I have flown all had modified and approved jump doors.
If you are going to fly a Cessna legally with a door off, only one can be removed at a time. Flight with both off would likely result in undesireable handling at approach speeds - been there, done that! Never again!
If you are going to photograph from a Cessna with a door legally removed, you will have to photograph from the other side of the cockpit, if you're on the same side as to door off side, the slipstream will pull and shake the camera too much to be of any use.
Any Cessna who's window opens, can have a very very minor temporary failure of the little spring that pulls the arm that holds the window half open. With that arm taped out of the way, that window will very nicely float up, and stay against the underside of the wing through the entire useful speed range. It should be all you need for good photography. The minor failure can be easily "repaired" following the flight, and there is no safely concern at all with such flight.
I hope this helps,
Pilot DAR
Most common light aircraft of North American origin would not be permitted flight with a door off, unless a supplemental approval had been issued. I cannot speak for other types of aircraft. If door off flight is approved, this will be specifically described in the flight manual or supplement, along with any limitations. You would definately invalidate insurance doing this without approval, as the aircraft would not meet it's C of A requirements. Some aerobatic aircraft (C150 Aerobat comes to mind) have removable doors, but that does not mean that door off flight is approved. (If you decided to remove the door while airborne, we would presume that "flight" is no longer underway, and who cares then?)
I have specifically approved my C150 for single door off flight. The jump Cessnas I have flown all had modified and approved jump doors.
If you are going to fly a Cessna legally with a door off, only one can be removed at a time. Flight with both off would likely result in undesireable handling at approach speeds - been there, done that! Never again!
If you are going to photograph from a Cessna with a door legally removed, you will have to photograph from the other side of the cockpit, if you're on the same side as to door off side, the slipstream will pull and shake the camera too much to be of any use.
Any Cessna who's window opens, can have a very very minor temporary failure of the little spring that pulls the arm that holds the window half open. With that arm taped out of the way, that window will very nicely float up, and stay against the underside of the wing through the entire useful speed range. It should be all you need for good photography. The minor failure can be easily "repaired" following the flight, and there is no safely concern at all with such flight.
I hope this helps,
Pilot DAR
Thanks for all the replies.
It is with regard to an N registered Maule, and I have had the answer elsewhere:
POH allows for any combination of doors to be removed (although flight characteristics more 'interesting' if you do have door(s) off on both sides!
For a Maule, then, the only external thing to check is your insurance - in terms of a/c you are good to go.
Sam.
It is with regard to an N registered Maule, and I have had the answer elsewhere:
POH allows for any combination of doors to be removed (although flight characteristics more 'interesting' if you do have door(s) off on both sides!
For a Maule, then, the only external thing to check is your insurance - in terms of a/c you are good to go.
Sam.
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Any Cessna who's window opens, can have a very very minor temporary failure of the little spring that pulls the arm that holds the window half open. With that arm taped out of the way, that window will very nicely float up, and stay against the underside of the wing through the entire useful speed range. It should be all you need for good photography. The minor failure can be easily "repaired" following the flight, and there is no safely concern at all with such flight.
With one of the windows on a C172 fully open, how far does the slipstream extend into the cockpit affecting the stability of the camera? Suppose my passenger has a semi-professional camera body with a zoom lens suitable for what we want to photograph (buildings and sports complexes, all from around 1000 feet). He sits RHS. Does he take the pictures through the RH window or the LH?
Obviously I've taken snapshots before, but when the weather gets a little better, the flowers come out and such, we want to do a semi-professional series of photographs of a few places that have our personal interest. These places happen to be in the Schiphol CTR and although we've had permission before to go there, they obviously don't want us there experimenting for extended periods of time. So any tips are welcome.
(Note - we don't expect to get paid or anything, so it won't be aerial work. It's just an excuse to go flying.)
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POH allows for any combination of doors to be removed (although flight characteristics more 'interesting' if you do have door(s) off on both sides!
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We have door off engineering orders as a POH supplement for our Warriors and Archer.
It specifies
No bank angles greater than 30 degrees
Airspeed limitation I can't remember exactly, about 90 knots?
Door hinge pins to be replaced every time the door goes back on
Our aircraft are used by photographers who want to do low level wide shots of farms etc. They take the right front seat out (photographer sits in the back for take off and landing) and the photographer kneels on the floor to take the shots over the wing.
Haven't done the flying for it myself but hear it gets a bit chilly.
Had a cherokee six that had approval for front and back doors off (not at the same time) and tipped a few meat bombs out that way. Have also flown an islander and C182 with back door off for the same reason.
It specifies
No bank angles greater than 30 degrees
Airspeed limitation I can't remember exactly, about 90 knots?
Door hinge pins to be replaced every time the door goes back on
Our aircraft are used by photographers who want to do low level wide shots of farms etc. They take the right front seat out (photographer sits in the back for take off and landing) and the photographer kneels on the floor to take the shots over the wing.
Haven't done the flying for it myself but hear it gets a bit chilly.
Had a cherokee six that had approval for front and back doors off (not at the same time) and tipped a few meat bombs out that way. Have also flown an islander and C182 with back door off for the same reason.
Moderator
Backpacker,
I use a Canon DSLR with a 100-400mm stabilized telephoto lens. Left window open, passenger photographs across in front of the pilot. With some practice it works great. There is the added benefit of much less chance of dropping the camera out the window! The slipstream will be of very little concern, and certainly not shake a camera across the cockpit.
In Bremerhaven, Germany last September I took a series of air to air photos from a 172. As my very skilled pilot chose to sit well forward, I sat in the back seat, and shot out his window (right did not open). This also worked very well, though with a more restricted range of motion. It was okay though, as the pilot kept my subject perfectly "locked" for the whole flight. With a long telephoto, the angle of view is so small, that if the pilot flies to enable the subject to be in the correct frame, there is no problem.
PM me if you need more info.
Pilot DAR
I use a Canon DSLR with a 100-400mm stabilized telephoto lens. Left window open, passenger photographs across in front of the pilot. With some practice it works great. There is the added benefit of much less chance of dropping the camera out the window! The slipstream will be of very little concern, and certainly not shake a camera across the cockpit.
In Bremerhaven, Germany last September I took a series of air to air photos from a 172. As my very skilled pilot chose to sit well forward, I sat in the back seat, and shot out his window (right did not open). This also worked very well, though with a more restricted range of motion. It was okay though, as the pilot kept my subject perfectly "locked" for the whole flight. With a long telephoto, the angle of view is so small, that if the pilot flies to enable the subject to be in the correct frame, there is no problem.
PM me if you need more info.
Pilot DAR
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Pilot DAR, thanks. With me being the pilot, I guess it's just a matter of determining beforehand how much "swinging space" the photographer has and needs, before deciding on whether to shoot through the left or right window.
And when you say 100-400 mm lens, I guess you are referring to the focus relative to the analogue technology? I've never read up on digital SLR technology, but I understand the focal length needs to be reduced by about 1/3rd for the same results, because the CCD is smaller?
And when you say 100-400 mm lens, I guess you are referring to the focus relative to the analogue technology? I've never read up on digital SLR technology, but I understand the focal length needs to be reduced by about 1/3rd for the same results, because the CCD is smaller?
Fly Conventional Gear
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And when you say 100-400 mm lens, I guess you are referring to the focus relative to the analogue technology? I've never read up on digital SLR technology, but I understand the focal length needs to be reduced by about 1/3rd for the same results, because the CCD is smaller?
I've never tried this (although I was told by an instructor that it can be done and it works quite well) but on the Super Cub you can open the door in flight (it's a split door with on half folding down and the top half latching onto the underside of the wing) which gives you a very large space in which to swing a camera. The sliding window on the left side is also useful although avoiding getting the struts in the picture is quite difficult.
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on the Super Cub you can open the door in flight (it's a split door with on half folding down and the top half latching onto the underside of the wing) which gives you a very large space in which to swing a camera.
TheOddOne
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When I do phot flights I usualy do it in a PA28 or PA32. I fly from the right hand seat and let the camera man sit in the left hand seat. That way they can poke the camera out of the little flappy window.
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That way they can poke the camera out of the little flappy window.
Anyway, I'm not checked out to fly from the RHS (nor do I want to) so it's either a 172 or photographing through perspex. Only the DA-40 and the 152/172s at my club have removable perspex on the RHS.
A spare seat in a parachute aircraft would be nice (and the parachute club is only next door) but unfortunately we have some specific objects we want to photograph, and they're inside a CTR, underneath a 1500' TMA. Not a chance that the parachute club is going to go there for a paradrop in the near future.
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Backpacker - welcome to the "It-will-take-forever-to-get-your-DA40TDi-back-in-the-sky-again-because-we-haven't-been-sent-the-parts-the-engineers-need-to-do-it" Group. I haven't been able to fly a certain FTO's DA40TDi since August because it is still sitting in kit form, with its new engine sitting next to it, at Bristol, waiting for Diamond to send them the necessary bits. 
To be fair to a certain person at Diamond, Retford, he has done his level best to get things moving but I fear he is thwarted by a lack of motivation on the part of Diamond, Austria.
To be fair to a certain person at Diamond, Retford, he has done his level best to get things moving but I fear he is thwarted by a lack of motivation on the part of Diamond, Austria.