The Electric Wonder !
Joined: May 2006
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From: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Interesting.
Anyone for ducted fans?
So how expensive will the electricity be and how long before it acquires a special tax? How "anti-pollution" will the electricity generation source be?
Build a totally silent aeroplane and the buggers would still find something to bind over!
Electric planes will still make some noise on take-off and in cruise -- from the propellor blades thrashing the air.
But they could be salvation for a sport that in Europe is slowly dying, under pressure from rocketing fuel costs, anti-pollution measures
and the ire of residents around airfields.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: GA, USA
Diamond/Boeing are soon to fly a DA-20 with a hydrogen cell:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/...70327e_nr.html
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/...70327e_nr.html
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
the buggers would still find something to bind over!
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
There is absolutely no problem in building an electric 200kt 4-seat tourer - the 350HP brushless (3-phase) DC motor would weigh no more than 50kg.
It's the batteries..........
and (if they existed) where to charge them from. You would need more than a 13 amp socket
With a massive breakthrough in battery technology (of the order of 10 times better than present best) and nuclear fusion to generate the electricity, we have a good proposal
It's the batteries..........
and (if they existed) where to charge them from. You would need more than a 13 amp socket
With a massive breakthrough in battery technology (of the order of 10 times better than present best) and nuclear fusion to generate the electricity, we have a good proposal
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,115
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
The battery technology can't be too far ahead in the future.
Watch this to see the power that can be stored at present:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nneZKbKS4ng
Btw, many airfields do have 415 volt 3 phase power supplies so charging shouldn't be a major problem.
Watch this to see the power that can be stored at present:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nneZKbKS4ng
Btw, many airfields do have 415 volt 3 phase power supplies so charging shouldn't be a major problem.
Last edited by ShyTorque; 1st January 2008 at 21:31.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: E Anglia
Forgive my naivety but to charge these new electric batteries shirley some fossil fuel has to be burnt or the odd isotope has to be cracked somewhere?
Just because it's further down the line and the electricity appears noiselessly at the flick of a switch, doesn't mean we won't still be paying for it and carbonising the atmosphere.
And I wouldn't like to be mid channel when the volts and amps ran out.
Cusco
Just because it's further down the line and the electricity appears noiselessly at the flick of a switch, doesn't mean we won't still be paying for it and carbonising the atmosphere.
And I wouldn't like to be mid channel when the volts and amps ran out.
Cusco
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 779
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From: Londonish
Not particularly in favour of electric, and completely agree it largely pushes the impact back upstream.. something that seems to be ignored with the so-called zero emission vehicles, but I can't resist:
Wouldn't like to be mid-channel when the avgas ran out either!
Surely still the same management / reserves issue, irrespective of the fuel
And I wouldn't like to be mid channel when the volts and amps ran out.
Surely still the same management / reserves issue, irrespective of the fuel
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
The brushless multi-phase DC motor requires quite sophisticated electronic control systems and power inverters, as well as storage batteries. But with the reliability of modern electronics and some system redundancy, that shouldn't present a huge problem?
Software control to optimise rpm prop pitch and monitor power reserves would, of course, be essential.
As long as weight is kept to a minimum. Which is always the problem with electric vehicles - the weight of the battery systems. But at least mobile phone/blackberry/laptop/PDA demands have already improved battery energy density quite significantly.
But could motor+batteries be kept below the weight of, say, an O-360 and around 300 lb of 100LL?
As for charging, solar wing panels could be integrated into a composite structure - and perhaps a small auxiliary diesel generator for back-up charging?
However, the market for an efficient 2/4 seat light electric aircraft with a 3-4 hour endurance is, regrettably, very small. So the ancient spamcan with its 1950s combine harvester engine is liable to rattle along for many years yet.
Perhaps the military UAV sector will stimulate design of something which could be modified for realistic personal transport?
Software control to optimise rpm prop pitch and monitor power reserves would, of course, be essential.
As long as weight is kept to a minimum. Which is always the problem with electric vehicles - the weight of the battery systems. But at least mobile phone/blackberry/laptop/PDA demands have already improved battery energy density quite significantly.
But could motor+batteries be kept below the weight of, say, an O-360 and around 300 lb of 100LL?
As for charging, solar wing panels could be integrated into a composite structure - and perhaps a small auxiliary diesel generator for back-up charging?
However, the market for an efficient 2/4 seat light electric aircraft with a 3-4 hour endurance is, regrettably, very small. So the ancient spamcan with its 1950s combine harvester engine is liable to rattle along for many years yet.
Perhaps the military UAV sector will stimulate design of something which could be modified for realistic personal transport?
Red On, Green On
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,490
Likes: 2
From: Between the woods and the water
Forgive my naivety but to charge these new electric batteries shirley some fossil fuel has to be burnt or the odd isotope has to be cracked somewhere?
Just because it's further down the line and the electricity appears noiselessly at the flick of a switch, doesn't mean we won't still be paying for it and carbonising the atmosphere.
Just because it's further down the line and the electricity appears noiselessly at the flick of a switch, doesn't mean we won't still be paying for it and carbonising the atmosphere.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
The brushless multi-phase DC motor requires quite sophisticated electronic control systems and power inverters
It's the batteries....
I disagree re the market for a 2-4 seater with 4hrs endurance - after all that is all a spamcan does, with "PPL training" fuel management. The problem, even if batteries were available, would be the energy requirement. 100HP is about 75kW and for 3 hrs that is 225kWh. This is cheap enough - about £20 - but at 415V (3 phase) is a lot of amps. If you want say a 3hr recharge that is 75kW drawn (assuming 100% efficiency!) and that is just one aeroplane.
Forgetting real long distance cruisers and looking at low power low weight cases (which is where most electric propulsion is aimed at) one could do stuff like solar charging; for example a private owner who flies once a week could largely solar charge (in the summer) with photovoltaic panels costing as much as the plane itself.
There is a long way to go...
Joined: Dec 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Various
Take of on batteries and when you get above 5000 feet you connect the little Jet-A powered jet-generator which tops up the battery again.
How big a gen would you need and how big a jet power system to run it?
Personally, I use repulsion as a power system. My plane is so ugly that the earth repels it! I believe that the Chevron microlight has a similar system.
E
Blue Up
G-BMMF
How big a gen would you need and how big a jet power system to run it?
Personally, I use repulsion as a power system. My plane is so ugly that the earth repels it! I believe that the Chevron microlight has a similar system.
EBlue Up
G-BMMF
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 483
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From: Europe
Perhaps the military UAV sector will stimulate design of something which could be modified for realistic personal transport?
The aero diesel engine development got a boost
by "single fuel battlefield" strategy by DoD.
Development of Thielert engines financed by Predator order...
