Owning/Running a Cessna 421
Life's too short for ironing
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Scotland, & Maryland, USA
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I fly a C421C (1979) and given the choice, for practical reasons would get rid of it yesterday. It has a poor payload (max 3 pax and minimum baggage with full fuel), it is slow to climb, slow in cruise and fussy in descent (engine management).
And talk about a dripping roast for a mechanic. Our guys could probably retire to somewhere warm on what we spend maintaining that aeroplane.... Go for a small jet any day, at least you won't be looking at a ground speed of 90kts when the headwinds pick up..
For actual handling, its a Cessna through and through, therefore a nice aeroplane to fly.
And talk about a dripping roast for a mechanic. Our guys could probably retire to somewhere warm on what we spend maintaining that aeroplane.... Go for a small jet any day, at least you won't be looking at a ground speed of 90kts when the headwinds pick up..
For actual handling, its a Cessna through and through, therefore a nice aeroplane to fly.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: South Africa
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Think carefully before deciding
IF you have one(1) excellent, very experienced ,full-time maintenance engineer & IF you manage the engines very carefully, you might be lucky with the C421.
The C-model is definately the best airframe as mentioned.
Best choice is to consider the RAM-modified models with full-house add-ons,which includes the very effective spoilers.
With over 1000 hours on the various 400 models, I've known all along that besides all things mentioned in the posts made, that turning on sand requires great care to preserve the nose-gear. They also don't last well on rough grass
strips. PM me if you need more info.
The Cessna Conquest turbo-prop version with it's de-rated PT-6 motors is the best option, as you then avoid the piston-engine hassles discussed.
The C-model is definately the best airframe as mentioned.
Best choice is to consider the RAM-modified models with full-house add-ons,which includes the very effective spoilers.
With over 1000 hours on the various 400 models, I've known all along that besides all things mentioned in the posts made, that turning on sand requires great care to preserve the nose-gear. They also don't last well on rough grass
strips. PM me if you need more info.
The Cessna Conquest turbo-prop version with it's de-rated PT-6 motors is the best option, as you then avoid the piston-engine hassles discussed.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sint-Truiden, Belgium
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Thanks for all the feedback.
But we also have a budget and the purchase price of a 425 is about 3 times the price of a good 421B.
and the PT6's cost also a lot of money to operate (TBO, overhaul)
And they also burn some gallons of Jet A-1.
Another question how good are the RAM engines for the 421 ?
Is there a lot of difference between the I,II, . . ., VII ?
Besides the problems with the stock engines I have been hearing also a lot of stories about this upgrade.
So can you give us some feedback on this item ?
But we also have a budget and the purchase price of a 425 is about 3 times the price of a good 421B.
and the PT6's cost also a lot of money to operate (TBO, overhaul)
And they also burn some gallons of Jet A-1.
Another question how good are the RAM engines for the 421 ?
Is there a lot of difference between the I,II, . . ., VII ?
Besides the problems with the stock engines I have been hearing also a lot of stories about this upgrade.
So can you give us some feedback on this item ?
RAM Series IV , V and VII refer to the C 340 and C414 aircraft. The mod allows the existing direct drive TSIO 520 engines to pull more boost so they can deliver 325 HP (Series IV ) or 335 HP (Series VI, VII). There is no RAM engine mod for the 421 series. The only RAM engine mod for the 421 engine is a switch to the late series heavy case 7th Stud engine which has a 1600 hr TBO versus the original 1200hrs. There are no mods to increase the HP for the piston 421. There are airframe mods however. The spoiler mod is highly desirable as it allows you to descend without excessively reducing the power and thus shock cooling the engine. In fact with a bit of planning you can fly the whole descent and approach to landing with the power left at 24 inches MP, only closing the throttles in the flare. There is a mod to put winglets on the airplane but IMO they are a purely cosmetic addition as there does not appear to be much of a performance improvement. The VG mod however is IMO a must have, as it makes the airplane safer and gives you 140 extra pounds at MGTOW
I find the remarks by fernytickles puzzling as the 1977 421C I flew could carry full mains (206 USG) and 6 adults plus bags. As for the cruise speed I flight planned 215 Kts which in my experience is faster than any piston twin except the Machen Aerostar.
My 02 cents
If you are going to have a happy ownership experience with a 421 ( or any comparable type of aircraft) there are 3 things you need to have
1) Enough money to buy a good well cared for machine and the resources to fix anything that breaks immediately. Defered maintainance doesn't work on these kinds of machines.
2) Have access to a maintainance shop that has prior experience fixing cabin class Twin Cessnas. Paying for you engineers learning curve will kill you.
3) Be tought how to fly it and just as important manage its engines and systems by someone with extensive experience on the make and model. You must also have a regular course of recurrent training, preferably incorporating a realistic simulator phase.
The same time I was flying the 421C another fellow bought a 421B to run commercially. The airplane he bought had good paint and a gorgous red leather interior. Unfortunately it also had a spotty maintainance history and the shop did not think it was the best airplane available. I offered to check him out but he said he "didn't need any training". Anyway after running it at max allowable TIT to "save fuel", never seeming to allow it to warm up and always rushing around in a hurry, he burned through three (3) $ 65,000 engines in 18 months. It also seemed to be in the shop after every flight with airframe snags untill he simply started to defer the work. Needless to say this story does not have a happy ending.
I find the remarks by fernytickles puzzling as the 1977 421C I flew could carry full mains (206 USG) and 6 adults plus bags. As for the cruise speed I flight planned 215 Kts which in my experience is faster than any piston twin except the Machen Aerostar.
My 02 cents
If you are going to have a happy ownership experience with a 421 ( or any comparable type of aircraft) there are 3 things you need to have
1) Enough money to buy a good well cared for machine and the resources to fix anything that breaks immediately. Defered maintainance doesn't work on these kinds of machines.
2) Have access to a maintainance shop that has prior experience fixing cabin class Twin Cessnas. Paying for you engineers learning curve will kill you.
3) Be tought how to fly it and just as important manage its engines and systems by someone with extensive experience on the make and model. You must also have a regular course of recurrent training, preferably incorporating a realistic simulator phase.
The same time I was flying the 421C another fellow bought a 421B to run commercially. The airplane he bought had good paint and a gorgous red leather interior. Unfortunately it also had a spotty maintainance history and the shop did not think it was the best airplane available. I offered to check him out but he said he "didn't need any training". Anyway after running it at max allowable TIT to "save fuel", never seeming to allow it to warm up and always rushing around in a hurry, he burned through three (3) $ 65,000 engines in 18 months. It also seemed to be in the shop after every flight with airframe snags untill he simply started to defer the work. Needless to say this story does not have a happy ending.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sint-Truiden, Belgium
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cessna.org
Gentlemen, I really would like to thank you for all info.
I just joined cessna.org and there is an amazing lot of info on it !
Really worth it's $ 70.00 !
If you have a Cessna just take a look
Greetz
I just joined cessna.org and there is an amazing lot of info on it !
Really worth it's $ 70.00 !
If you have a Cessna just take a look
Greetz
Join Date: Jun 2016
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800B Cessna Autopilot - C421C
Greetings,
I have a Cessna 800B Nav O Matic Autopilot in my Cessna 421C. Recently the autopilot is causing problems. It does not engage when i push the autopilot button.
Any advice?
Regards
Yasir
I have a Cessna 800B Nav O Matic Autopilot in my Cessna 421C. Recently the autopilot is causing problems. It does not engage when i push the autopilot button.
Any advice?
Regards
Yasir
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: uk
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I worked with a instructor who had a share in a 421.
He said never again.
Cost £100,000 to buy and another £100,000 in two years in maintenance.
He wished he had bought a house instead, although they don't fly!
He said never again.
Cost £100,000 to buy and another £100,000 in two years in maintenance.
He wished he had bought a house instead, although they don't fly!
Join Date: Oct 2007
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I believe there are two very sad looking C421's sitting at Biggin Hill, one has no engines. to me they look un-flown for several years ? Maybe good for parts ?
May be that tells a story about the operating costs ?
May be that tells a story about the operating costs ?
Join Date: Jan 2011
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yrizvi86
There may be a dry connection. Is this this yoke command or the 800 head itself? Electrical spray around the contacts maybe if you have no avionic shop close by.
The GTSIO-520's are not that bad, although thirsty. Very careful engine management is a must. Stick with the maintenance schedule and there shouldn't be too many gotchas. A lovely aircraft to fly.
There may be a dry connection. Is this this yoke command or the 800 head itself? Electrical spray around the contacts maybe if you have no avionic shop close by.
The GTSIO-520's are not that bad, although thirsty. Very careful engine management is a must. Stick with the maintenance schedule and there shouldn't be too many gotchas. A lovely aircraft to fly.
