Safer Flying?

[llanfairpg]

So stop being a nanny and start letting pilots exercise the privileges of their licence to be the commander of an aircraft.

I prefer the nanny approach, its kept my pilots alive for 33 years

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I get so excited every time I read the word " commander " to describe a Cessna 150 pilot.....makes me want to go out and buy Gold bars.

I wonder if telling some bar fly you are an aircraft commander would make it easier to get laid?

[llanfairpg]

I get so excited every time I read the word " commander " to describe a Cessna 150 pilot.....makes me want to go out and buy Gold bars.

Spend the money on Penthouse, its better value but still all tits and fanny just like on here.

[bookworm]

I wonder if telling some bar fly you are an aircraft commander would make it easier to get laid?

Depends on whether you mention it's a 150.

[fireflybob]

Lots of good advice and I am reminded of the adage that the superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid getting into situations where he has to use his superior skill.

That said if you are going to crash make sure the wings are level and that you are under control (ie dont stall or spin). Its the loss of control near the ground that invariably involve fatalities. Remember also to spin you need a stalled wing and yaw - so avoid doing this!

Also the other one to avoid is CFIT - get proficient at instrument flying and if you so end up in cloud inadvertently climb to the MSA as soon as possible.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

..makes me want to go out and buy Gold bars.

Actually I have a set and a white shirt with those gay loops on the shoulders to mount the bars on.

We are forced to wear them in places such as Africa and other third world countries when ferrying airplanes, without them it is very difficult to get anything done.

However I draw the line at wearing them in public or off an airport.

I have a real pilot at home who wears them.

Meet Wilbur Wrong...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...h/P1010671.jpg

We will not answer to " Commander " though.

Is that cruelty to animals?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hi,
Just passed my PPL.
Ive heard of quite a few people having crashes in light aircraft and have come to the conclusion that the 2 main reasons of fatalities is due to the aircraft bursting into flames on impact or the impact itself.

I have seen an aircraft i want to buy and it is a cessna with a centurion diesel engine conversion. If i was to put a ballistic parachute onto that then that would make flying alot safer wouldnt it?

In the event of loss of control i could just pull the parachute , and therefore wouldnt die from the impact. And even if i did have a good hard impact , diesel doesnt expode does it?

Matt

Firstly, many congratulations on gaining your PPL - a big achievement, and a licence to enjoy a whole lot of new adventures.

Regarding accidents; whilst I've never been a full-time air accident investigator, I've worked on a lot of accident / safety investigations (and still am), and also quite a lot (20+, I've lost count) of light aircraft designs, most of which I had authority to sign for. I've also been in two light aircraft accidents (one my fault!) and walked away from both. This is basically a preamble intended to say that I think I know what I'm talking about. (Also slightly pompous, for which I apologise).

Firstly, yes Diesel (AVTUR) will both burn and explode. The conditions to make it explode are a little harder to achieve than with petroleum spirit (AVGAS) but it's do-able, so a Diesel fuel system is no particular life-saver.

Secondly, in my opinion a very low proportion of light aircraft accidents are rendered non-survivable by fire, explosion, or entrapment. Non-survivable accidents are almost always rendered so by ground impact, and the fire, etc. is pretty much an afterthought to make life harder for the accident investigators.

Third, the vast majority of light aircraft fatal accidents are caused by either loss of control, or loss of situational awareness at low level - leading to some combination of stall, spin, or flight into terrain (what the airline boys call CFIT). Ground impact is generally the killer, loss of control or awareness is what causes that, and very often it'll happen too low for any kind of parachute (save an ejection seat, which isn't an option for this end of aviation) to save the aircraft occupants.

So, if you are worried about preservation of life on board, then for my money the big issue is avoiding loss of control or situational awareness at low level. Neither a Diesel aircraft, nor a ballistic parachute (although they both have definite benefits for other reasons) will do much for you there.
So what are? Well, here's a few ideas:

(1) More training, particularly on the type and variant that you buy. Also think about any skill-enhancing ratings (night, IMC, tailwheel) as you go along..

(2) A suitably beginner friendly aeroplane. Statistically, for somebody in your position, a tapered wing PA28 (e.g. a PA28-151 or -161) or a C152 are about as good as you'll get, and should be achievable on your budget.

(3) A damned good headset, reducing personal stress levels, and improving your concentration.

(4) Find out if the given aircraft has any enhanced stall warning options.

(5) Don't buy outright for your first aeroplane, buy a syndicate share - that way you are surrounded by a wealth of experience which will keep you safe and sensible, if you take the trouble to listen to it.


G

[llanfairpg]

Firstly, yes Diesel (AVTUR) will both burn and explode. The conditions to make it explode are a little harder to achieve than with petroleum spirit (AVGAS) but it's do-able, so a Diesel fuel system is no particular life-saver.

I would have quoted that as much harder hence you very rarely hear of a diesel bomb.
Very good advice Genghis now can you advise on the carb post and if a C152 needs engineering attention after a carb fire.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Haven't seen that thread, I'll take a look.

G

[bookworm]

Meet Wilbur Wrong...
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...h/P1010671.jpg

Airbus crews these days, huh?!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Wilbur was the perfect pilot.

When he was not playing the " commander " role sitting on his ass and barking he was whining.

Sadly he went to the big dog kennel in the sky last June with many hundreds of hours flying with me.

He even had his own security ID tag that he wore when he was at the airport.....I laminated his picture on top of one of my airport security tags and he wore it proudly......but he was smart enough to refuse to wear a Hi-Vis vest.

[princepilot]

Genghis,

Thanks for the reply. I am definitely going to spend my time and money on more training and when i decide which aircraft i want to buy i will invest in alot of extra training on that type.

Matt

[drambuster]

BRS parachute system for Cessna 172

Princepilot

Cessna 172 / 182 (STC'ed by BRS)

My comments in an earlier post suggesting there was unlikely to be a certified retrofit BRS parachute for the 172 may have been completely wrong ! I was glancing through the latest issue of US flying magazine "Plane & Pilot" this afternoon and came across a news item to the effect that one may well be available. Take a look at:

www.brsparachutes.com/default.aspx

and

http://www.brsparachutes.com/ViewDoc...?DocumentID=83

I am not suggesting that it would be the best way to spend your money and feel that you should stick with all the good advice earlier . . . . but apologies for the misinformation !

[llanfairpg]

Chuck I know you are having trouble with the definition of Captain and Commander so try mine;

The load controller makes me sign the load sheet because I am the captain.

The cabin crew ask me if I can encourage the guys in row 1 from being rowdy because I am the commander.

If your having trouble understanding that can I add we have many captains with gold bars in our company but not so many commanders.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

If your having trouble understanding that can I add we have many captains with gold bars in our company but not so many commanders.

No I understand perfectly what the two words mean, it's just that I personally have moved beyond needing to use the terms to describe myself.

Same with wearing a uniform and being all decked out with gold bars and wings and such, I do not need all that to do the job expected of me when I'm " In Command " of a flying device.

But thats just me.

Here is my slant on this flying airplanes thing.

Several years ago we lost an engine on take off in Jeddah, we ended up having to make two trips back to Jeddah to change the engine. It was seven months before we finally finished with all the bureaucratic B.S. and the physical torture of working outside in temperatures over 50 degrees C. before we finally finished and were able to continue the ferry flight to the USA.

It is my personal feelings that comparing the two different jobs, flying versus fixing are quite different and my job satisfaction was far more satisfying with regard to fixing versus flying.

A well trained monkey can fly an airplane but can a monkey fix one?

[Monkeeeey]

Hi Princepilot,

If I was in your position I would not rush to take anyone up until I was fully confident in my abilities and had gained solid flight experience. This would include a thorough understanding of the limitations and behaviour of your chosen ac (beyond that of the PPL training) so would look for some aerobatic type instruction.

Accidents can happen in any activity that involves human participation, normally the end result is based on the speed and quality of the actions/steps that get taken as a problematic situation develops. Many say having the ability to detecting the prevailing situation in the first place is the best way to prevent them, however this requires awareness/experience and a good understanding of what you are doing.

Also it might not be your actions that can cause an accident, so having a parachute is no guarantee and should it happen at low altitude the chute would be near useless.

Thorough planning and having good situational awareness will reduce the risk, but gaining an understanding of what the ac feels like at its limits will help also.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Agree with Bookworm. Part of the problem is a fear of making one's own decisions. By all means get your licence and then, with the right attitude, buy your own aircraft and very gently start pushing the envelope.

The attitude is key: be humble and realise that you don't know enough to be frightened when you should be and you will probably be OK.

[Pilot DAR]

Prince Pilot,

You certainly have recieved a lot of great advice here, which I completely support. It sounds as though you're inclined to follow it, and I commend you for that. This forum would thus have served it's most important purpose: Helping a pilot grow a safe attitude.

As for the parachute, approving the installation of such a modification in Canada would be within the scope of my job, but I would be very reluctant to do it. The main reason is that I would have a terrible time trying to figure out how I would draft a Flight Manual Supplement which would describe the precise circumstances under which it should be used. This would be pilot decision making of the highest order. I am confident that a pilot who was so skilled in decision making, would never be in circumstanes where the chute would help.

I've been flying for more than 30 years, and I have never been in a circumstance where I would have considered deploying a chute, if I'd had it. I've never hit the ground when I did not plan to either. Luck? Probably. I pay a lot attention to flying safely though, and avoiding unsafe circumstances. As has been pointed out, the major cause for fatal accidents seems to be controlled flight into terrain, in which case, the chute is of zero use! Aside from airframe ice, I have never heard of a single Cessna becoming unflyable in flight. You'd be amazed how much damage they can tolerate, and still land safely. You should see what a 10 pound goose can do to a Cessna wing!

If you're flying places where you really would not want to have to do a forced approach, either fly higher, fly a twin, or buy a ticket. As for flying the whole family around, I've done it a few times, but I really do not plan my family life so it is necessary. I suggest that you allow yourself to become a much more experienced pilot before you start flying the clan around. That does not mean that you can't take them for a ride one by one, but being husband and dad, as well as pilot, might become too much responsibility all at once for a new pilot. If the whole family has to be somewhere else, as before, buy tickets.

Keep reading here, (but don't take the nonsense seriously), and you'll learn a lot!

Fly safely, it sounds like you're off to a good start!

Pilot DAR

[Gertrude the Wombat]

...start flying the clan around. That does not mean that you can't take them for a ride one by one, but being husband and dad...

I am permitted to take only some of my children flying at once. I am not permitted to take my wife flying if any of the children are left on the ground. (Which, as I haven't found a 206 for rent anywhere near Cambridge, means I've never taken the whole family flying. If you ignore the time the pilot of a chartered Beaver let me have a go.)

[frontlefthamster]

Oh dear...

that welsh poster wrote:

Prince pilot--seriously suggest you read the Highway Code, you are more likely to have an accident to and from the airfield than in the aircraft if you fly safely--aircraft only bite fools

...and that's rubbish on so many levels...

Prince pilot: you're asking a good question there. The answer, if you're looking for certainty, is "don't fly".