No Transponder

[AndyGB]

Hi

I may be shortly buying a share in an aircraft which doesn't have a transponder. In such an aircraft how likely is it that you would get clearance to transit/penetrate controlled airspace ?

I've been trawling through my air law/radio telephony books and they seem to imply that you don't need one (unless under IFR) but surely the controllers would need some way of identifying you by giving you a code to squawk ?

Any advice gratefully received.

Andy

[Contacttower]

I've crossed Southampton CTR before with only a primary return...and I've flown through the Boscombe MATZ loads of times without a transponder. I just say 'negative squawk' when they give me the code and that's never been a problem. For VFR in class D there is nothing that says you need a transponder (I believe).

[PPRuNe Radar]

For VFR in class D there is nothing that says you need a transponder (I believe).

It depends on the airspace involved. Some of the higher parts of Class D do require a transponder, in specified TMAs and Class D Airways for example.

Generally airfield Control Zones will probably not require it but check the AIP first.

[tmmorris]

This may be pure prejudice but I get the impression military controllers are happier operating primary only than civilian*, so you would be better off going through a MATZ or the Brize zone non-squawk than, say, Solent or East Midlands.

Tim

*honorable exception Gloucester, who are fantastic on primary only, but of course have no CAS.

[almost professional]

would not turn away primary only transit unless the return was so poor you could not use it-and don't have to identify every transit anyway

[Rod1]

No transponder should not be a problem up to March 2012. Post this date there will be Transponder mandatory Zones established under some arrears of controlled airspace. This may make life hard with no Transponder depending on how many and when they come in. The procedure to introduce TMZ’s is going to be the same as extending controlled airspace so it should only happen when it is really needed.

What sort of aircraft and why no transponder? The cost of fitting a Transponder will very from around £300 for a second hand KT76a, DIY fitted under the PFA system, to £10,000 plus.

There is a CAA presentation on the PFA website on mode s if you want more.

Rod1

[AndyGB]

It's a Jodel D112 on a permit but it has no electrics, so hand swung and uses a handheld radio.

[stiknruda]

I have operated several aircraft over the past few years without transponders and have never been inconvenienced by its omisssion.

[Rod1]

“It's a Jodel D112”

Lovely machine, go for it! There are a number of D112’s around operated by groups and they represent superb “bang for the buck”. I am aware of one group where 3k gets you 1/5th, and it is £35 per month £35 per hour wet, which is very good for a 2 seater capable of some serious mileage.

Rod1

[poetpilot]

I'd endorse Rod's comments. My first shared aircraft was a Jodel 112. We went all over the place in it, had a million adventures and loved it. There are still many, many places to go where you don't need a txponder. Go for it!

[Maoraigh1]

I fly a Jodel 1050 C. of.A without a transponder. We have a transponder kept from a previous C. of A. Jodel we owned. We have been quoted £1000+ to fit it. We are not willing to pay that to fit a 15+ year old avionic.
I personally would feel much happier squawking.

[Rod1]

“We have been quoted £1000+ to fit it”

If your machine is going to join the ranks of the PFA then you should save almost all the £1000 fit cost by doing most if not all the work yourself. Unfortunately, you will have to get a move on as I think there is a deadline of March 08 for fitting mode a/c transponders. After this, if you fit anything it has to be Mode s.

You will have to get a PFA inspector to sigh the work off and pay the PFA £22.50 for a mod (which will have to be approved in advance).

Rod1

[Maoraigh1]

That's what we're hoping. It all depends on whether we are allowed to go permit before the March deadline.