Spain VFR - radio, transponder, flight plan requirements.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Russia
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spain VFR - radio, transponder, flight plan requirements?
Whoever has experience with Spain VFR private flying. Would appreciate any insight.
On a anekdote level, flight plan is manadatory, as well as radio contact with ATC guys.
AIP says to the contrary - no radio rqrd in Class E and below. No mention of transponder requirements.
basically, i am looking for an answer on the following questions:
Can I do flight from uncontrolled to uncontrolled field, VFR, with no flight plan, radio and transponder?
Can I cancel FP (and radio contact) after leaving ATZ if leaving controlled field?
On a anekdote level, flight plan is manadatory, as well as radio contact with ATC guys.
AIP says to the contrary - no radio rqrd in Class E and below. No mention of transponder requirements.
basically, i am looking for an answer on the following questions:
Can I do flight from uncontrolled to uncontrolled field, VFR, with no flight plan, radio and transponder?
Can I cancel FP (and radio contact) after leaving ATZ if leaving controlled field?
Last edited by 502; 8th Dec 2007 at 23:39.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Spanish AIP can be found on their badly designed official website, and this link should take you to it.
I guess you have to register; should be free.
Last time I looked, one needed a flight plan only for flights in controlled airspace.
The transponder rules change every day
I guess you have to register; should be free.
Last time I looked, one needed a flight plan only for flights in controlled airspace.
The transponder rules change every day
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can also get access to (most of) the AIP of most countries via the Eurocontrol website:
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/
Register/login, then click through half a dozen windows to go to the applications. Eventually you'll end up at "PAMS Light", where you are able to select whichever part you want to read.
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/
Register/login, then click through half a dozen windows to go to the applications. Eventually you'll end up at "PAMS Light", where you are able to select whichever part you want to read.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As IO says, a flight plan is only required if the flight pass through some controlled airspace. If you can avoid controlled airspace, you don't need one.
Having said that, from what I remember it was fairly difficult to avoid controlled airspace! There is an awful lot of class D, and most airports seemed to be within class D.
I can't remember the transponder requirements as we had one, so that was'nt an issue for us.
One thing I would say is that the Spanish ICAO VFR charts are CRAP CRAP CARP! Airspace is extrememly difficult to read from them, and somthing that is best sorted on the ground! I'm not a fan of the Jeppesen VFR charts, but if I was going to Spain again, I'd get the Jeppesen ones in preference to the SPanish ICAO ones.
It's 18 months since I flew to Spain, so that info is 18 months old.
dp
Having said that, from what I remember it was fairly difficult to avoid controlled airspace! There is an awful lot of class D, and most airports seemed to be within class D.
I can't remember the transponder requirements as we had one, so that was'nt an issue for us.
One thing I would say is that the Spanish ICAO VFR charts are CRAP CRAP CARP! Airspace is extrememly difficult to read from them, and somthing that is best sorted on the ground! I'm not a fan of the Jeppesen VFR charts, but if I was going to Spain again, I'd get the Jeppesen ones in preference to the SPanish ICAO ones.
It's 18 months since I flew to Spain, so that info is 18 months old.
dp
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: esher
Age: 76
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
vfr in spain
Flew to Tangier in September via east coast of Spain.Very easy being passed on radio from one station to next all the way.Be aware that you need to book a slot at larger airports as well as a flight plan.Fuel (100 ll) was no problem anywhere in Spain but I had plenty of bowser-waiting time !Landing fees at Alicante,Malaga,Almeria and Valencia were all the same at ,if I remember rightly ,about 12 Euro (bit different to Gatwick).Biggest problem was a reluctance to let me park anywhere ! Alicante and Mercia would supply fuel but not allow overnight parking.I overnighted at Muchamiel north of Alicante which has parking but no fuel !!Also bear in mind that Muchamiel likes the radio in spanish.Fuel in Tangier provided lots of entertainment as 3 men tried to get fuel from a tank on a trailer which kept throwing fuel everywhere as their foreman leant against said trailer talking on his mobile phone .Still 3 hours standing in 42 degrees to get 40 litres isnt bad is it ? As stated Jepps are the best option for charts. Go for it !
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great country to fly in. Here's what you need:
In theory you do not need a flightplan. In practice you do, as any flight from/to/through CAS requires one. There is not a lot of uncontrolled airspace around in Spain. Hence, you also need a radio and transponder.
Don't worry about CAS transits, just call up the controller before entering. On most long-distance flights you will be handed over from one controller to the next anyway.
You do NOT need slots at Spanish airports. This was only for Valencia during the Americas Cup. You DO however, need to check the NOTAMs as some airports (e.g. Malaga, Ibiza) limit and/or prohibit VFR traffic at certain times of the year and/or certain days of the week. Check and make sure you check older ones also, some of this info can be buried in a months-old NOTAM. Some airports (e.g. Badajoz) are mil/civ and have special procedures in place.
Radio is generally done in English, although a basic command of Spanish phraseology definitely helps, if only for situational awareness. Definitely worth brushing up on if you intend to fly into smaller fields. I think I've got a PDF with the most important phrases somewhere, PM me if you want it.
Landing fees are dirt cheap and are the same at all AENA airports, i.e. all the bigger ones. Fuel is generally not a problem, neither is (in my experience) parking. Exception here again being Valencia, where they force you to park miles from the fuel station and terminal. You then need to get ground handling and pay them EUR 60.- to get you back to the flight plan office.....
Charts: forget the Spanish ones, they are useless, get the Jeppesen.
International flights: Arriving from/departing to a Schengen country you can use any airfield. Not so going to Morocco (or Gibraltar, if you want to 'enjoy' UK-style landing fees). In this case you will need to use a customs field. Morocco usually likes a VFR flight plan filed with 24 hour notice, although I don't think this is a legal requirement. If you intend to fly to Portugal, you will need to cross the border at certain points (most, if not all are intersections) , this is a Portuguese requirement.
HTH
In theory you do not need a flightplan. In practice you do, as any flight from/to/through CAS requires one. There is not a lot of uncontrolled airspace around in Spain. Hence, you also need a radio and transponder.
Don't worry about CAS transits, just call up the controller before entering. On most long-distance flights you will be handed over from one controller to the next anyway.
You do NOT need slots at Spanish airports. This was only for Valencia during the Americas Cup. You DO however, need to check the NOTAMs as some airports (e.g. Malaga, Ibiza) limit and/or prohibit VFR traffic at certain times of the year and/or certain days of the week. Check and make sure you check older ones also, some of this info can be buried in a months-old NOTAM. Some airports (e.g. Badajoz) are mil/civ and have special procedures in place.
Radio is generally done in English, although a basic command of Spanish phraseology definitely helps, if only for situational awareness. Definitely worth brushing up on if you intend to fly into smaller fields. I think I've got a PDF with the most important phrases somewhere, PM me if you want it.
Landing fees are dirt cheap and are the same at all AENA airports, i.e. all the bigger ones. Fuel is generally not a problem, neither is (in my experience) parking. Exception here again being Valencia, where they force you to park miles from the fuel station and terminal. You then need to get ground handling and pay them EUR 60.- to get you back to the flight plan office.....
Charts: forget the Spanish ones, they are useless, get the Jeppesen.
International flights: Arriving from/departing to a Schengen country you can use any airfield. Not so going to Morocco (or Gibraltar, if you want to 'enjoy' UK-style landing fees). In this case you will need to use a customs field. Morocco usually likes a VFR flight plan filed with 24 hour notice, although I don't think this is a legal requirement. If you intend to fly to Portugal, you will need to cross the border at certain points (most, if not all are intersections) , this is a Portuguese requirement.
HTH
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: esher
Age: 76
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
172 driver
I had to book slots at alicante and malaga in september .I also had to make sure that I timed my trips so that I didnt arrive in Alicante on Tuesday Thursday or Saturday as VFR was prohibited on those days
I had to book slots at alicante and malaga in september .I also had to make sure that I timed my trips so that I didnt arrive in Alicante on Tuesday Thursday or Saturday as VFR was prohibited on those days
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had to book slots at alicante and malaga in september
I also had to make sure that I timed my trips so that I didnt arrive in Alicante on Tuesday Thursday or Saturday as VFR was prohibited on those days
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jerez was also operating a parking slot system (as of autumn 2006) due to restricted parking and extensive upgrade works. The Notam said the slot was to be booked by fax, so when I tried to book my slot (for returning from Morocco) at the control office in Jerez there was some discussion as to whether this could be done in person, rather than by fax as the Notam required.......
For flying in Spain, I'd say it essential to read the up-to-date Notams. Lots of restrictions pop up.
There is a useful GA guide published to all the airfields of Spain & Portugal, pm me if you'd like details.
The other coment I'd make is that while the Jeppesen charts are good for flying, if you can get the Spanish military charts (1:1 million) these are very good for the topography and for flight route planning in both Spain and Portugal.
For flying in Spain, I'd say it essential to read the up-to-date Notams. Lots of restrictions pop up.
There is a useful GA guide published to all the airfields of Spain & Portugal, pm me if you'd like details.
The other coment I'd make is that while the Jeppesen charts are good for flying, if you can get the Spanish military charts (1:1 million) these are very good for the topography and for flight route planning in both Spain and Portugal.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Russia
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks all for replies.
What's the connection of FP requirement and radio? Do you mean I have to have a radio (to talk to tower) or I have to maintain two-way all the time? After leaving Class D - can I thank the tower and proceed without contacting departure or whoever's next?
Not that I really care for flying without talking to anyone, but seems easier that way if I want to do some "uncontrolled" sightseeing and wandering around.
Originally Posted by 172driver
In theory you do not need a flightplan. In practice you do, as any flight from/to/through CAS requires one. There is not a lot of uncontrolled airspace around in Spain. Hence, you also need a radio and transponder.
Not that I really care for flying without talking to anyone, but seems easier that way if I want to do some "uncontrolled" sightseeing and wandering around.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes it has. You need a FP for flight in/through/into/out of CAS. In the same situation, you need to talk to a controller. Make sense ?
To quote from the Spanish AIP:
A quick glance at a chart will tell you that any halfway serious touring in Spain is mostly done in one form of CAS or another. In reality, you therefore maintain two-way comms all the time. As an aside, Spain has quite a few very remote areas, where it's not such a bad idea that ATC have at least a rough idea what you are up to. That said, in vast tracts of southern Spain, you won't be able to talk to them unless climbing quite a bit.
PS:PM sent
To quote from the Spanish AIP:
Whenever flying within a portion of airspace where flight plan submission is required, a VFR flight shall maintain continuous listening on the appropriate radio frequency of the air traffic services. Position reports must be made in accordance with the controlled flight procedures.
PS:PM sent
Last edited by 172driver; 9th Dec 2007 at 22:14. Reason: PM sent
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Russia
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote from AIP actually is good answer. It is explicit requirement in Spain - to have a two-way while on FP.
Not necessarily. For example in US - having VFR FP does not mean you need to have a two-way comm in CAS. Can open/close FP through FSS (even through phone) - no ATC contact whatsoever.
Originally Posted by 172driver
You need a FP for flight in/through/into/out of CAS. In the same situation, you need to talk to a controller. Make sense ?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Err... trying this will most likely get you the undivided attention of a few gentlemen in F16s 
You are confusing FP with CAS. The FP requirements vary from country to country and can be found in the AIP. In the US, other than when crossing an ADIZ, a VFR FP is not mandatory (I'd need to check for possible recent changes, don't have time now). However, you DO need radio contact when flying in CAS in the US.
To sum it up: in the US, you can happily fly in CAS without a FP, but you do need to talk to someone.
In any case, this thread was about Spain, no
You are confusing FP with CAS. The FP requirements vary from country to country and can be found in the AIP. In the US, other than when crossing an ADIZ, a VFR FP is not mandatory (I'd need to check for possible recent changes, don't have time now). However, you DO need radio contact when flying in CAS in the US.
To sum it up: in the US, you can happily fly in CAS without a FP, but you do need to talk to someone.
In any case, this thread was about Spain, no
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Russia
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I hate this thread being converted into anything else except Spain, still - alow me to retort.
I am not consusing FP with CAS. Class E in US is CAS (as everywhere else). Radio contact is not required for VFR flight in Class E. Prudent - yes (flight following). Mandatory - no.
You right - VFR FP is not mandatory either. But even if you file an FP, you don't have to talk to anyone. Gentelmen in F16s could not care less.
In US, the only purpose VFR FP serves is SAR. ATC don't even have your FP on their computers until you miss your ETA.
Apparently all that is not the case in Spain. AIP says radio contact is not required in Class E, but flight plan is, and two-way contact whenever FP is required. I guess Inquisition still alive.
I am not consusing FP with CAS. Class E in US is CAS (as everywhere else). Radio contact is not required for VFR flight in Class E. Prudent - yes (flight following). Mandatory - no.
You right - VFR FP is not mandatory either. But even if you file an FP, you don't have to talk to anyone. Gentelmen in F16s could not care less.
In US, the only purpose VFR FP serves is SAR. ATC don't even have your FP on their computers until you miss your ETA.
Apparently all that is not the case in Spain. AIP says radio contact is not required in Class E, but flight plan is, and two-way contact whenever FP is required. I guess Inquisition still alive.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Abroad
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a quick note to back up what 172 says, with my measle 60 or so flying hours in Spain, FWIW.
Just follow his advice and you'll be allright--you can argue all you want latter with the guys at the airport's traffic services office.
As an aside, flight plans and FIS are there for your benefit as well as for the rest of us.
Just follow his advice and you'll be allright--you can argue all you want latter with the guys at the airport's traffic services office.
As an aside, flight plans and FIS are there for your benefit as well as for the rest of us.
