Taking passengers flying as a Christmas present
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Taking passengers flying as a Christmas present
With the giving period coming up, a couple of my friends have asked me if I would do a flight for their parents as a gift. I currently rent a Cessna 172 from my local club and am happy to take passengers flying, but I wondered what implications there were to these actions.
First of all, as I am only a PPL, I realise that I cannot be paid for flying passengers, so would only charge my friends up to 100% of the operating costs of the aircraft for the time (rent, fuel, landing).
In regards to insurance, the club offers day insurance at £5 which I would include in the price of the flight and I would make the passengers aware f this.
As I am not an instructor, I would obviously fly the left hand seat and give the passengers a full safety briefing for pre-takeoff, takeoff, airbourne, landing, etc.
I promise to make it an enjoyable experience and promote GA as a safe and fun hobby.
Anything else I may need to add?
First of all, as I am only a PPL, I realise that I cannot be paid for flying passengers, so would only charge my friends up to 100% of the operating costs of the aircraft for the time (rent, fuel, landing).
In regards to insurance, the club offers day insurance at £5 which I would include in the price of the flight and I would make the passengers aware f this.
As I am not an instructor, I would obviously fly the left hand seat and give the passengers a full safety briefing for pre-takeoff, takeoff, airbourne, landing, etc.
I promise to make it an enjoyable experience and promote GA as a safe and fun hobby.
Anything else I may need to add?
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
would only charge my friends up to 100% of the operating costs of the aircraft for the time (rent, fuel, landing).
Also, you cannot accept any payment or expenses relating to the flight, other than the cost sharing above. Nor can you advertise the "service".
Otherwise, there is no problem with taking your friend's parents flying.
SD
Brief them with a smile, take out the insurance and have fun.
If someone trys to 'come after you' because you may have done something only an FI or CPL should have done - then they obviously have far too much spare time and their job can probably be merged with somebody elses (who couldn't care tuppence about what you want to do!).
Now I'll duck for cover
Sam.
If someone trys to 'come after you' because you may have done something only an FI or CPL should have done - then they obviously have far too much spare time and their job can probably be merged with somebody elses (who couldn't care tuppence about what you want to do!).
Now I'll duck for cover
Sam.
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Yes Squawk, Litigation Solicitors and Barristers do!
Cost SHARING is legal and there is no legal requirement for you to sit in the left seat, you could sit in the right hand seat if you wanted to but you would need to check with your CFI, it may require a check ride or be prohibited by the SO's. why bother anyway-pax will be happy in any seats.
Do consider your responsiblity to the pax in regard to safety briefings etc.
I would find another flying school if yours charges £5.00 per pax, like everything shop around, many make no charge
Cost SHARING is legal and there is no legal requirement for you to sit in the left seat, you could sit in the right hand seat if you wanted to but you would need to check with your CFI, it may require a check ride or be prohibited by the SO's. why bother anyway-pax will be happy in any seats.
Do consider your responsiblity to the pax in regard to safety briefings etc.
I would find another flying school if yours charges £5.00 per pax, like everything shop around, many make no charge
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Lanfairpg,
Ah humour.....
....and apparently PPL's do air law as well? No? or did you do your licence on another planet?
As for the RHS, I do not know so I will not comment other than to ask what an inexperienced PPL taking friends flying might do if he inadvertently got into cloud and needed instruments?
...ask a barrister perhaps?
Ah humour.....
....and apparently PPL's do air law as well? No? or did you do your licence on another planet?
As for the RHS, I do not know so I will not comment other than to ask what an inexperienced PPL taking friends flying might do if he inadvertently got into cloud and needed instruments?
...ask a barrister perhaps?
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He would possibly do the same as an instructor would if sitting in the right hand seat, turn back or fly the aircraft with reference to the instruments in front of him. Its only when you sit in one of the front seats upside down that it gets confusing.
and apparently PPL's do air law as well? No? or did you do your licence on another planet?
No idea what you point is you asked if anyone reads air law anymore. Obviously on the planet you are on they do not.
and apparently PPL's do air law as well? No? or did you do your licence on another planet?
No idea what you point is you asked if anyone reads air law anymore. Obviously on the planet you are on they do not.
Hey, No fair! 
That's my idea.
I had cunningly realised that I could save my precious pennies, avoid braving the pre-Christmas town centre, and give my family presents of vouchers entitling them to a flight with me.
Well, I figured, they have all said they'd love to come flying and I was already going to take them up for a jolly, and I have to spend money on hour-building anyway, so why not? I'm not going to fall foul of any law because I'm not charging them.
Everyone wins!
That's my idea.I had cunningly realised that I could save my precious pennies, avoid braving the pre-Christmas town centre, and give my family presents of vouchers entitling them to a flight with me.
Well, I figured, they have all said they'd love to come flying and I was already going to take them up for a jolly, and I have to spend money on hour-building anyway, so why not? I'm not going to fall foul of any law because I'm not charging them.
Everyone wins!
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Outstanding !!! your a hoot,
Let me keep it simple then, cost sharing is covered in airlaw 101 for PPL's. Every PPL should know it without asking....that's my point.
As for your comment that inexperienced PPL's would do what an instructor would do ...eh? Well hey, . I'll be sure to tell every inexperienced PPL I meet that it's ok to fly from the RHS and just to do what an instructor would do.....if it doesn't work out call llanfairpg..
Let me keep it simple then, cost sharing is covered in airlaw 101 for PPL's. Every PPL should know it without asking....that's my point.
As for your comment that inexperienced PPL's would do what an instructor would do ...eh? Well hey, . I'll be sure to tell every inexperienced PPL I meet that it's ok to fly from the RHS and just to do what an instructor would do.....if it doesn't work out call llanfairpg..
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Mikehotel, it wasn't actually my idea, one of my friends just wrote it on my Facebook page, and before I knew it, I had more requests
Saab, I'll take into consideration that passengers can only pay towards the cost of flying, eg, 2/3 in total, that is fine, as I'm happy to pay 1/3 of what I normally pay.
I'll think about the Father Christmas fancy dress idea, although I'm sure most people will waint to wait until March time to do the flying, so I'll wear an Easter Bunny outfir instead...
Saab, I'll take into consideration that passengers can only pay towards the cost of flying, eg, 2/3 in total, that is fine, as I'm happy to pay 1/3 of what I normally pay.
I'll think about the Father Christmas fancy dress idea, although I'm sure most people will waint to wait until March time to do the flying, so I'll wear an Easter Bunny outfir instead...
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Squawk Yes i would recommend you keep everything very simple.
Oh by the way have a look at air law especially the section that says it is the duty of a commander to check an intended route for the presence of IMC BEFORE flight.
Its not the seat that you sit in that makes you a commander its the attitude you arrive at the flying school with.
I have seen very experienced pilots/instructors continue into conditions that sensible inexperienced pilots would have turned back in. In fact I buried two of them at Elmdon Church 20 years ago. RIP Steve Harris and Nick Harper my best instructor and receptionist aged 21 and 19.
Inexperience with caution is better than experience with bravado, everytime
Oh by the way have a look at air law especially the section that says it is the duty of a commander to check an intended route for the presence of IMC BEFORE flight.
Its not the seat that you sit in that makes you a commander its the attitude you arrive at the flying school with.
I have seen very experienced pilots/instructors continue into conditions that sensible inexperienced pilots would have turned back in. In fact I buried two of them at Elmdon Church 20 years ago. RIP Steve Harris and Nick Harper my best instructor and receptionist aged 21 and 19.
Inexperience with caution is better than experience with bravado, everytime
Last edited by llanfairpg; 5th Dec 2007 at 14:02.
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llanfairPG....wow...you are taking this personally arent you?
So, weather doesn't change after take off then ?
Flying from the RHS is no different to flying from the left for an inexperieced pilot then ?
So it's about attitude when I turn up.... ??????????????????????
And I do not get the point of your comment about the accident 20 years ago other than that you obviously want to let me know what an experienced old hand you are..
yada yada yada....time to do something different
So, weather doesn't change after take off then ?
Flying from the RHS is no different to flying from the left for an inexperieced pilot then ?
So it's about attitude when I turn up.... ??????????????????????
And I do not get the point of your comment about the accident 20 years ago other than that you obviously want to let me know what an experienced old hand you are..
yada yada yada....time to do something different
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so I have a question then to fuel debate
Suppose I fly to where ever to conduct Diver training, in my (what ever it is I buy) that I pay for and three divers say "can we come with you ?" and just get in providing their kit isnt going to be a problem weight wise. What is wrong with that?
Its not costing me anything as I was going anyway and they had the opportunity to fly BA or cheap air if they wanted to.. ?
Then whats the difference if six of them turn up and I have a big enough what ever to throw them all in? I am not charging them for coming with me and they dont have to pay if they dont want to but can if they like contribute but as I am going anyway it doesnt really matter..or does it? I would really like some (sensible) answers.....
Its not costing me anything as I was going anyway and they had the opportunity to fly BA or cheap air if they wanted to.. ?
Then whats the difference if six of them turn up and I have a big enough what ever to throw them all in? I am not charging them for coming with me and they dont have to pay if they dont want to but can if they like contribute but as I am going anyway it doesnt really matter..or does it? I would really like some (sensible) answers.....
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PG,
Nop, I made a straightforward comment, you made some pronouncements and when I asked prefectly valid questions you 1. took the hump and 2. strayed from the point in my view.
I did not take your sarcasm, deal with it.... not ignorance , just a discussion, sorry if you cannot deal with someone who doesn't happen to agree with you. Frankly I think you have made an argument out of nothing.
Nop, I made a straightforward comment, you made some pronouncements and when I asked prefectly valid questions you 1. took the hump and 2. strayed from the point in my view.
I did not take your sarcasm, deal with it.... not ignorance , just a discussion, sorry if you cannot deal with someone who doesn't happen to agree with you. Frankly I think you have made an argument out of nothing.
1. Perhaps Squawk and PG could start a new thread to bash each other in? - er, just a thought. 
Radical Rabbit, whilst they pay nothing - you are okay. Whilst they pay their share of direct costs you are okay (ie 3/4, 5/6 or 129/130 dependant on the size of your aircraft?!).
In reality, if you choose to ask the 5 of them to cover the full cost of the flight - and you go for free - then you are unlikely to go to prison but it is not permitted.
I (ahem, occasionally) drive my car in excess of the speed limit, that is a risk I assess and take.
The rule exists to prevent PPLs flying commercially - I don't see that either you or Luigi M are planning on doing that.
It's ultimately up to you, assess and decide.
Sam.
Radical Rabbit, whilst they pay nothing - you are okay. Whilst they pay their share of direct costs you are okay (ie 3/4, 5/6 or 129/130 dependant on the size of your aircraft?!).
In reality, if you choose to ask the 5 of them to cover the full cost of the flight - and you go for free - then you are unlikely to go to prison but it is not permitted.
I (ahem, occasionally) drive my car in excess of the speed limit, that is a risk I assess and take.
The rule exists to prevent PPLs flying commercially - I don't see that either you or Luigi M are planning on doing that.
It's ultimately up to you, assess and decide.
Sam.
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Radical, don't forget that compressed gas cylinders are by default forbidden on aircraft unless non-pressurized. There are exceptions, but diving cylinders are not one of them.
Agreed, has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but since you brought up the divers, I thought I'd mention it anyway.
Agreed, has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but since you brought up the divers, I thought I'd mention it anyway.