Oh nuts... revalidation time
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 123
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From: Gods Chosen Country
Medical & Revalidation
I fell between several stools on this subject.
Having done my 12 hrs + 1hr instruction I took my certificate to my usual CFI get signed but was told it could not be because it was more than three months prior to expiry
My medical then expired and when I re-presented I was told it could not be signed because the medical was not current.
Then another CFI advised that it could be signed at any time duringthe second year after I had completed the requirements.
The last seems the most logical to me.
So on with the FAA licence in the meanwhile, no such hassles
Having done my 12 hrs + 1hr instruction I took my certificate to my usual CFI get signed but was told it could not be because it was more than three months prior to expiry
My medical then expired and when I re-presented I was told it could not be signed because the medical was not current.
Then another CFI advised that it could be signed at any time duringthe second year after I had completed the requirements.
The last seems the most logical to me.
So on with the FAA licence in the meanwhile, no such hassles
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,814
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From: Euroland
On the Spot,
The rating can be revalidated at any time during it's validity provided you meet the requirements.
Your CFI was wrong!
If you decide to revalidate outside the last 3 month window the your rating will now run from 2 years from the date it was signed and you will loose the ramaider of your current validity period.
The validity of the medical is a totally separate issue to the rating and is outside the authority of the CFI to comment on unless they are an AME or you are trying to exercise your licence and rating without a valid medical.
Regards,
DFC
The rating can be revalidated at any time during it's validity provided you meet the requirements.
Your CFI was wrong!
If you decide to revalidate outside the last 3 month window the your rating will now run from 2 years from the date it was signed and you will loose the ramaider of your current validity period.
The validity of the medical is a totally separate issue to the rating and is outside the authority of the CFI to comment on unless they are an AME or you are trying to exercise your licence and rating without a valid medical.
Regards,
DFC
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 636
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From: notts
The medical thing
Having a valid medical to revalidate is not stated in the requirements for revalidation nor renewal.
However, the Chief Examiner has said that we should check medical currency when revalidating. That guidance would be in accordance with common sense. What hasn't been stated is what we should do should we discover a medical is expired.
I do not know what authority that I have to refuse a revalidation request when the medical is invalid. Therefore I simply treat the occasion as an opportunity to make sure that the pilot knows that their medical has expired. It is now up to them. They would certainly not be able to hire a club aircraft until they can show a current medical.
The CAA do state that a licence will not be renewed without a current medical. Nothing is formally stated by the CAA that any revalidation or renewal of a rating should be declined.
However, the Chief Examiner has said that we should check medical currency when revalidating. That guidance would be in accordance with common sense. What hasn't been stated is what we should do should we discover a medical is expired.
I do not know what authority that I have to refuse a revalidation request when the medical is invalid. Therefore I simply treat the occasion as an opportunity to make sure that the pilot knows that their medical has expired. It is now up to them. They would certainly not be able to hire a club aircraft until they can show a current medical.
The CAA do state that a licence will not be renewed without a current medical. Nothing is formally stated by the CAA that any revalidation or renewal of a rating should be declined.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 123
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From: Gods Chosen Country
medicals and revalidation
Mmmmmm !
I wish I had had a recording of the conversations with my CFI at the time. We fell out anyway later over other shall we say "management" issues from his somewhat autocratic and also inconsistent style. It seems it extends to application of the rules too and perhaps he needs a "revlaidation exercise" in that area.
I have spoken to a number of other CFI's since and got varying requirements for signing, as well as scope for the revalidation test.
The FAA system really is simplest and generates a minimum of two hours for the instructor (and pilot) too.
I wish I had had a recording of the conversations with my CFI at the time. We fell out anyway later over other shall we say "management" issues from his somewhat autocratic and also inconsistent style. It seems it extends to application of the rules too and perhaps he needs a "revlaidation exercise" in that area.
I have spoken to a number of other CFI's since and got varying requirements for signing, as well as scope for the revalidation test.
The FAA system really is simplest and generates a minimum of two hours for the instructor (and pilot) too.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
There are a lot of opinions out there usually from the crusty old souls who have not been near the CAA in years.
I had a local CFI of a school refuse to sign a licence revalidation for a student after a flight with me in the days before I could do both bits saying the flight had to be with one of their Instructors to be valid. I have seen other examples of schools insisting that a 'full revalidation' flight be carried out with all of the 'required' skills and the logbook marked as a pass or fail.
What I do have contained in my little examiner pack is guidance notes on what to sign and what is valid and advice that we check the medical so that if it is out of date we can make sure the pilot knows. I do know that any flight as PUT with an Instructor of greater than one hour or an LPC flight of any duration counts towards revalidation. I do know that if I sign the revalidation in the last three months that it runs concurrently. If I sign it before then it runs from the date of signing. I do know I have to complete an SRG1119.
I do know that for an NPPL to be valid they pilot must fly 6hrs a year in the class and have a rolling 24 month flight with an Instructor. I do not send in an SRG1119 or sign the licence.
I do know that as an Instructor I can carry out the review flight and that the content of the flight is up to the pilot. I do have a suggested format for the flight that can be offered to the pilot if they have nothing in particular that they want to do but it is not a requirement just a suggestion. Most people who come for the 2 year flight generally like a bit of guidance and so we cover the usual stuff EFATA, PFL etc. I do know the flight should be a minimum of 1hr. At the end of the flight I will sign the logbook to confirm that an entry with my name as PIC is correct and I will sign the revalidation page to indicate that the requirements for revalidation have been met.
I do know that I will revalidate by experience the licence of anyone who brings me a licence and logbook and has met the experience requirements as outlined by the CAA. I will also ask to look at the medical as requested by the Chief Examiner but I am not in a position to refuse to revalidate if the experience requirements have been met legally. I would recommend to the pilot they get a new medical and point out flight without one would be illegal.
Thats as far as it goes!!!
I had a local CFI of a school refuse to sign a licence revalidation for a student after a flight with me in the days before I could do both bits saying the flight had to be with one of their Instructors to be valid. I have seen other examples of schools insisting that a 'full revalidation' flight be carried out with all of the 'required' skills and the logbook marked as a pass or fail.
What I do have contained in my little examiner pack is guidance notes on what to sign and what is valid and advice that we check the medical so that if it is out of date we can make sure the pilot knows. I do know that any flight as PUT with an Instructor of greater than one hour or an LPC flight of any duration counts towards revalidation. I do know that if I sign the revalidation in the last three months that it runs concurrently. If I sign it before then it runs from the date of signing. I do know I have to complete an SRG1119.
I do know that for an NPPL to be valid they pilot must fly 6hrs a year in the class and have a rolling 24 month flight with an Instructor. I do not send in an SRG1119 or sign the licence.
I do know that as an Instructor I can carry out the review flight and that the content of the flight is up to the pilot. I do have a suggested format for the flight that can be offered to the pilot if they have nothing in particular that they want to do but it is not a requirement just a suggestion. Most people who come for the 2 year flight generally like a bit of guidance and so we cover the usual stuff EFATA, PFL etc. I do know the flight should be a minimum of 1hr. At the end of the flight I will sign the logbook to confirm that an entry with my name as PIC is correct and I will sign the revalidation page to indicate that the requirements for revalidation have been met.
I do know that I will revalidate by experience the licence of anyone who brings me a licence and logbook and has met the experience requirements as outlined by the CAA. I will also ask to look at the medical as requested by the Chief Examiner but I am not in a position to refuse to revalidate if the experience requirements have been met legally. I would recommend to the pilot they get a new medical and point out flight without one would be illegal.
Thats as far as it goes!!!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 271
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From: Munich, Germany
For goodness sake, what will make a pilot who claims to have appropriate "situational awareness"
to be PIC of an aircraft, let his/her medical expire and then go for a proficiency test for licence revalidation?
You know what, if I am a CFI or examiner that is confronted with this situation, I will never take that pilot serious.
What do you think will happen if an accident occur under this circumstances and it is determined that the pilot was in the left seat without appropriate medical requirements?
The result will be a lenghty discussion in this forum about medical requirement.
It is simple. Don't even dream of jumping into an aircraft without current mdecial.
to be PIC of an aircraft, let his/her medical expire and then go for a proficiency test for licence revalidation?You know what, if I am a CFI or examiner that is confronted with this situation, I will never take that pilot serious.
What do you think will happen if an accident occur under this circumstances and it is determined that the pilot was in the left seat without appropriate medical requirements?
The result will be a lenghty discussion in this forum about medical requirement.It is simple. Don't even dream of jumping into an aircraft without current mdecial.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
Er! yeah and your point is? I have not seen anywhere in this discussion anyone even suggesting that flight without a medical is OK. Everyone has said the same thing, the reason as examiners we ask to look at the medical is just as a sanity to check to make sure it has not been forgotten. Very easily done I am afraid. I have come close in the past and there is nothing wrong with my 'situational awareness'!!!
'taking the pilot seriously' does to give the examiner the right to refuse revalidation when then the requirements have been legally met. A diligent examiner will make it clear to the pilot their responsibilities for securing a new medical before flight.
It may just be as in a recent case where I had a guy who needed he revalidation signing, his medical expired at the same time as the rating so he was going through the hoops and next stop was a medical.
'taking the pilot seriously' does to give the examiner the right to refuse revalidation when then the requirements have been legally met. A diligent examiner will make it clear to the pilot their responsibilities for securing a new medical before flight.
It may just be as in a recent case where I had a guy who needed he revalidation signing, his medical expired at the same time as the rating so he was going through the hoops and next stop was a medical.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 526
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From: Aberdeen, UK
and it is determined that the pilot was in the left seat without appropriate medical requirements? The result will be a lenghty discussion in this forum about medical requirement.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,814
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From: Euroland
Bose,
While you are spot on about the examiner bits, I wonder about the flight with a PPL where the CFI refused to sign the licence because "the flight had to be with one of their Instructors to be valid"
If the flight was made in their school aircraft and you were not an instructor from that RTF / FTO then there may have been an insurance issue as most clubs prohibit training on their aircraft by instructors not authorosed by the CFI.
Regards,
DFC
While you are spot on about the examiner bits, I wonder about the flight with a PPL where the CFI refused to sign the licence because "the flight had to be with one of their Instructors to be valid"
If the flight was made in their school aircraft and you were not an instructor from that RTF / FTO then there may have been an insurance issue as most clubs prohibit training on their aircraft by instructors not authorosed by the CFI.
Regards,
DFC
