Mode S meeting with CAA
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Re batteries for gliders: also, we fly at altitudes where temperature is lower than the idealised laboratory conditions which deliver a claimed "7 amp-hours" so they do less than that even when new; and the manner of use, and recharge cycles, are not optimised so the charge is effectively lower and worsens with time. We are not going to replace them every week. Unusually for IO540 (imho) he/she got this one completely wrong. But then, he/she thinks I did.
The two extra batteries I fitted weigh about 5 kg. A transponder would be another 0.5-0.6 kg, according to specs.
So my "several kg" is correct with current technology. And I won't fit one until either I have to, or a suitable one is on the market. And if it runs out of battery power when I'm flying at up to 13,000 feet or more for 11 hours, along with losing all my other electrical instruments, hard luck, I suppose.
Chris N.
The two extra batteries I fitted weigh about 5 kg. A transponder would be another 0.5-0.6 kg, according to specs.
So my "several kg" is correct with current technology. And I won't fit one until either I have to, or a suitable one is on the market. And if it runs out of battery power when I'm flying at up to 13,000 feet or more for 11 hours, along with losing all my other electrical instruments, hard luck, I suppose.
Chris N.
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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“The problem is that a minor transponder manufacturer will wait until they are mandatory”
Mode S is mandatory for IFR flight, and several small manufacturers have come in with £1500 ish (inc vat) units.
http://w w w.trig-avionics.com/products.html
http://w w w.lxavionics.co.uk/transponders.htm
(note spaces to comply with pprune rules)
Some units (one of the Garmin ones?) do not have extended squitter, so the poor sods that bought them will have to scrap them and replace them with a new box for ADS-B. The longer you wait the better the chance that you will get something, which the CAA approves of for both.
Some years ago when I designed my panel the best price I could get a Mode S unit for was £4500. It is now £1550 ish and by 2012 it will be down again.
Edited to add
“won't be mandatory until 2012 (According to current proposals)”
No plans to make Transponders mandatory in the UK open FIR but 2012, take a look at my summary on Page 1 and the CAA presentation on the PFA website
Rod1
Mode S is mandatory for IFR flight, and several small manufacturers have come in with £1500 ish (inc vat) units.
http://w w w.trig-avionics.com/products.html
http://w w w.lxavionics.co.uk/transponders.htm
(note spaces to comply with pprune rules)
Some units (one of the Garmin ones?) do not have extended squitter, so the poor sods that bought them will have to scrap them and replace them with a new box for ADS-B. The longer you wait the better the chance that you will get something, which the CAA approves of for both.
Some years ago when I designed my panel the best price I could get a Mode S unit for was £4500. It is now £1550 ish and by 2012 it will be down again.
Edited to add
“won't be mandatory until 2012 (According to current proposals)”
No plans to make Transponders mandatory in the UK open FIR but 2012, take a look at my summary on Page 1 and the CAA presentation on the PFA website
Rod1
It will be possible, for sure, to tour in the UK, post 2012 without a transponder. It MAY be possible to tour parts of Europe, nobody knows for sure at this time.
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>>>>>The government will approve the proposals at the end of next year. Carriage won't be mandatory until 2012 (According to current proposals). That gives manufacturers around 4 years to come up with something.<<<<
But surely this is the wrong way round
The Govt makes a transponder mandatory during 2008, but doesn't create a spec, or even have a working prototype at the time they pass the legislation.
They then live in hope that in 4 years a manufacturer might think it worthwhile to present a model at indeterminate cost and performance for approval.
What if they don't?
We have been told repeatedly that unless an acceptable tx (in terms of cost, size and performance) is available, this will not be mandated.
We could be in the same position as with Part M Lite - the law is in place, but the reality is somewhat different
But surely this is the wrong way round
The Govt makes a transponder mandatory during 2008, but doesn't create a spec, or even have a working prototype at the time they pass the legislation.
They then live in hope that in 4 years a manufacturer might think it worthwhile to present a model at indeterminate cost and performance for approval.
What if they don't?
We have been told repeatedly that unless an acceptable tx (in terms of cost, size and performance) is available, this will not be mandated.
We could be in the same position as with Part M Lite - the law is in place, but the reality is somewhat different
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Originally Posted by robin
But surely this is the wrong way round
The Govt makes a transponder mandatory during 2008, but doesn't create a spec, or even have a working prototype at the time they pass the legislation.
They then live in hope that in 4 years a manufacturer might think it worthwhile to present a model at indeterminate cost and performance for approval.
What if they don't?
The Govt makes a transponder mandatory during 2008, but doesn't create a spec, or even have a working prototype at the time they pass the legislation.
They then live in hope that in 4 years a manufacturer might think it worthwhile to present a model at indeterminate cost and performance for approval.
What if they don't?
Second, if the CAA mandates Mode S transponder carriage and no manufacturers decide to make a small, lightweight battery powered transponder, I will start a small, lightweight battery powered transponder manufacturing company. I'll be a millionaire overnight.
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To my certain knowledge, the CAA have been talking about how much they have been working with manufacturers on the low-powered, low-cost tx for some years. At numerous CAA presentations we have been promised a small, safe and sub 700-euro one. Yet we still don't have this in place.
It would be good if someone could actually get this underway - the Kinetics model still is not at marketable stage, as far as I am aware, although the 'prototype' has been in aviation mags for over 2 years.
It would be good if someone could actually get this underway - the Kinetics model still is not at marketable stage, as far as I am aware, although the 'prototype' has been in aviation mags for over 2 years.
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If, unlike existing manufacturers in the sector, you have the capability and production capacity to build a lightweight, low power, reliable Mode-S transponder at low cost, then yes you could become rich.
I suspect that low power and light weight isn't, using currently technology, compatible with low cost. Only millionaire you're likely to become will be one with a large minus sign in front of the pound sign!
I suspect that low power and light weight isn't, using currently technology, compatible with low cost. Only millionaire you're likely to become will be one with a large minus sign in front of the pound sign!
