Night flying-count towards PPL?

[Robbo0885]

Hi all,

Contemplating doing night qualification as part of my PPL. Currently 18hrs, but with winter and only one day a week for flying, with a night qualification I could open up the possibilities for getting hours in for my PPL, and get finished sooner. (I plan to go all the way in the modular route, so any time saved is always good I guess!)

I have been told that night flying time will count towards the total 45 needed, and also been told that it won't count. Can anyone shed any light on this? Also, I figured night flying hones your skills, is this true? Will you become better at Nav etc if you've done lots at night?

Thanks all.

[172driver]

It certainly does in FAA land, but then again, there is no separate NQ there, it's part of the syllabus.

[dublinpilot]

Yes it does.

When you add up the required hours on the various required areas, they come to less than 45 hours....around 35 if I remember correctly. The balance to make up 45 hours total requirement, can be made up of any type of (relevant) P1 or Pu/t. This includes night training.

dp

[gcolyer]

I agree with Dp.

I done my night training (all 5 hours of it) as part of my PPL course. I am surprised that more people don't do this.

[Robbo0885]

Thanks for the initial repsonses. What have you guys who did the NQ have to say about it? Done much night flying since? I assume far more challenging than daytime?

[Cessna 210 Heavy]

Yes it does. I know this because I found out the hard way. My instructor told me it didnt and then we spent hours and hours going over stuff just to fill the 40hrs up.

I was not best please with him or the club when I found out I could have done my night rating with my PPL, I even asked if I could at the start of the course!

[Mark 1]

It's certainly valid to do it, and some of the PPL syllabus such as instrument appreciation and radio navigation, can equally well be done at night.

What use you make of an NQ will largely depend on the availability of suitably equipped aircraft and airfields and you attitude towards SE night flying.

[gcolyer]

I fly SE night without any worries. Usually I will end up over sea so it doesnt really bother me if I am going to crash in the light or dark, either way I am going to get wet or dead.

I have flown many more hours in day light than night time and I have had only one engine failure, so I am not quiet sure why everyone seems to have issues with night flying in an SE aircraft.

Maybe it is because darkness makes the engine more prone to failing????

[EvilKitty]

Maybe it is because darkness makes the engine more prone to failing????

Haven't you ever seen Gremlins???


I've done night flying towards my PPL and its definately worth doing. It gives a different perspective of the world and increases your instrument appreciation immensely. My favourite part was definately the (simulated) total electrical failure! Landing with partial runway light failure was also fun. Scariest bit was the demonstrated (you won't be asked to do it) EFATO - feels like falling into a black hole...

[stickandrudderman]

You learn something new every day!

I asked about the night rating at my school and was kind of ignored!
Now I realise it was because they wanted me to do it after the PPL so they could generate more revenue!
(I haven't so they haven't, but if I had they might have by way of more rental income!)

I have done the IMC test and a renewal, but not a NQ. Frankly I'm not sure that I need to legally, but certainly my local airfield will only allow night flying by those who are on a special list.

[Merritt]

Staying on the topic of night flying.. I am still in CA at the moment and have a two hour slot booked this evening (my first night flight anywhere). I have been assuming that I will be able to put this two hours towards my NQ in the UK- can someone please confirm?

Also - regarding log book entry, would NQ training be PUT or P1 U/S?

Cheers

Steve M

[S-Works]

To fly at night legally you need a NQ. An IMC does not count!

Night training, is PUT during the dual portion which is 3hrs, the solo portion is P1 for the next 2hrs, 5hrs total and you submit your application to the CAA.

[Fright Level]

LASORS C1.2 "Night Qualification .. training may be completed and included within the 45 hours total flight time required for the JAR FCL PPL ..."

See also section E4.1

[gcolyer]

Merrit

It depends what you are doin in CA. If you are flying P1 on an FAA license based on your JAA license then it will be illegal for you to fly at night unless you have the NQ on your JAA license.

If you are flying PUT with a JAA FTO then the 2 hours must be with an instructor, after that you can then fly the 3 hour solo night requirement.

[S-Works]

Actually its 3hrs with the Instructor and 2 solo including 5 FULL STOP landings.

[Merritt]

Ok, so I will be flying from Shoreline flying club (based at Palo Alto) which I believe is a full JAA FTO. I will be with a club instructor so it looks like I will be able to put it down as PUT and put the two hours towards my official NQ when I get back to the UK if what you say is correct.

Cheers

Steve M

[gcolyer]

Bose
Just checked my log book and I definatley have 2 hours with an instructor and 3 hours solo....the CAA seemed happy with it, so I can't grumble

Merrit
Sounds ok to me. Not sure how it would stand with the TSA and VISA regs though, as it will officialy be classed as training which would require an M1 VISA, wich you will need an I-20 comlpleted which can only be done by an authorised FTO. You would also need to nrol with SEVIS. the whole VISA/TSA/SEVIS process takes about 3 months to do.

But like I say I am not sure how the NQ would stands when it comes to that lot.

[S-Works]

Then you got away with someone at the CAA not checking your log book correctly.....

Extract from LASORS:

NIGHT QUALIFICATION (AEROPLANE)
FLYING TRAINING/EXPERIENCE
REQUIREMENTS
When applying for a Night Qualification you must
produce evidence of having met the following flying
requirements:-
a. 5 hours overall night training in aeroplanes to
include b) and c),
b. i. 3 hours dual night training to include ii);
ii. 1 hour dual night navigation;
c. 5 Take-off and full stop landings at night as PIC
of aeroplanes.

[S-Works]

NIGHT QUALIFICATION (HELICOPTER)
FLYING TRAINING/ EXPERIENCE
REQUIREMENTS
Applicants applying for a Night Qualification you must
produce evidence of having met the following flying
requirements:
• 100 hours of flight time as pilot of helicopters
after the issue of the PPL(H), including:
• 60 hours as Pilot in Command of helicopters;
and
• 20 hours cross-country flight.
The main features of the PPL(H) Night Qualification
Course are:
• 5 hours theoretical knowledge instruction;
• 10 hours dual helicopter instrument instruction -
this is in addition to any instrument instruction
completed prior to the course. The holder of an
IR(A) is credited 5 hours of this training;
• 5 hours helicopter night training, including 3
hours dual instruction and 5 solo night circuits.
Each circuit shall include a take-off and landing.
• The course must be completed within 6 months.

[Bravo73]

Hooloovoo,

Just before you get any conspiracy theory balls rolling, a helicopter (especially a light SEP heli) is a much, much more unstable instrument flying platform than it's equivalent FW cousin. Hence the more stringent training requirements...