Propellers are DANGEROUS
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Guppy,
Great posting, except I can't agree with -
From the actual SOCATA approved Flight Manual for a 1978 Rallye 180 (MS.893E) with a Lycoming 0-360 A1A (so not fuel injected)
Edition 10, Page 4.07. Section 4.4.1. Starting the engine -
Normal procedure
Mixture - full rich.
Main switch - On
Alarm panel - Energised ........ etc
Propellor - fine pitch.
Fuel level - checked
Fuel cock - Open, light off.
Booster pump - On
Injection - Pump throttle 2 to 3 times.
Throttle - push forward 2cm
Surroundings - Clear.
Starter - Operate, 30 sec. Max. And so on!
The language in the manual is slightly quaint in places due to the translation from the original french, but injection in this sense undoubtably means that you should prime the engine by using the accelerator pump. On this particular aircraft there are no other means of priming other than pumping the throttle.
Great posting, except I can't agree with -
If you're doing like some and trying to "prime" using your accelerator pump (pumping the throttle)...don't do that. You're not accomplishing a thing other than posing a fire hazard.
Edition 10, Page 4.07. Section 4.4.1. Starting the engine -
Normal procedure
Mixture - full rich.
Main switch - On
Alarm panel - Energised ........ etc
Propellor - fine pitch.
Fuel level - checked
Fuel cock - Open, light off.
Booster pump - On
Injection - Pump throttle 2 to 3 times.
Throttle - push forward 2cm
Surroundings - Clear.
Starter - Operate, 30 sec. Max. And so on!
The language in the manual is slightly quaint in places due to the translation from the original french, but injection in this sense undoubtably means that you should prime the engine by using the accelerator pump. On this particular aircraft there are no other means of priming other than pumping the throttle.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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The throttle does not prime. It's an air valve.
On carbureted engines using an accelerator pump, a fine mist of fuel is sprayed into the induction when pushing in the throttle lever. The purpose of this mist, called an accelerator pump, is to prevent the engine from stumbling during throttle increase by enrichening the mixture. It is not a primer.
On carbureted engines using an accelerator pump, a fine mist of fuel is sprayed into the induction when pushing in the throttle lever. The purpose of this mist, called an accelerator pump, is to prevent the engine from stumbling during throttle increase by enrichening the mixture. It is not a primer.
I shall never go near the prop again, except to check the blades for nicks and inside the cowling for loose pipes, birds' nests etc.I so often see people pulling the aircraft about using their props that I started doing it. I have seen the error of my ways.
Hand propping with Leburg ignition is easy and safe. Zero chance of kicking back. Ignition is 100% dead with the battery switches off.
Video of first engine runs after 3 year restoration....
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...1Image0022.flv
Rope tied around wheel rims as a quick-release handbrake plus this one is rawlbolted through the tailskid to the concrete driveway.
I still have all of my fingers. I always keep a tight hold os some immovable part of the fuselage to ensure I don't fall into the prop. Watch the hands!
If anyone wishes to comment/ridicule/besmirch my technique then I'd be happy to accept any good advice so that we might all learn the safe method os 'swinging'.
Video of first engine runs after 3 year restoration....
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...1Image0022.flv
Rope tied around wheel rims as a quick-release handbrake plus this one is rawlbolted through the tailskid to the concrete driveway.
I still have all of my fingers. I always keep a tight hold os some immovable part of the fuselage to ensure I don't fall into the prop. Watch the hands!
If anyone wishes to comment/ridicule/besmirch my technique then I'd be happy to accept any good advice so that we might all learn the safe method os 'swinging'.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Blue Up,
That was a beautiful example of proper (no pun intended) handling, and hand-starting the airplane.
I'd love to see more pictures of the airplane itself. Looks like those three years of effort paid off!
That was a beautiful example of proper (no pun intended) handling, and hand-starting the airplane.
I'd love to see more pictures of the airplane itself. Looks like those three years of effort paid off!
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Two points I'd like to mention..
Firstly, in this thread and others about hand swinging props i've read , if you are working solo, then one vital action I don't recall reading about is just before Mags On
FUEL OFF
It might seem a strange thing to do, but if you have ever been unfortunate to witness an light a/c set orf on full chat with the pilot desperately chasing it you will understand.
Secondly, Blue Up. G8 vid and a smashing example of good engineering and aviation best practice. But, bit of a Gay pose after
Sorry cudn't resist.
Sir George
FUEL OFF
It might seem a strange thing to do, but if you have ever been unfortunate to witness an light a/c set orf on full chat with the pilot desperately chasing it you will understand.
Secondly, Blue Up. G8 vid and a smashing example of good engineering and aviation best practice. But, bit of a Gay pose after
Sorry cudn't resist.Sir George
Join Date: May 2007
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All instrument panels on Tiger Club aircraft at Redhill were placarded....
'ALL AIRCRAFT BITE FOOLS'
Which is as true today as it was years ago!!
In my nearly 50 years working on aircraft, I have seen the aftermath of turning props, a guy at Hawker aircraft Co. with half a face and an arm missing,(Sea Fury) an engineer friend of mine who nearly broke his hand a couple times when the engine kicked back,(Gipsy Majors) an aircraft started and ran away, in the hangar at full power, after a pilot decided to see what the compression was like on this particular engine.(Volkswagen)
I have had 12 stitches in my shoulder from the wind driven Generator on an Auster, and several scars from model aeroplane engines.........so that makes me??
Yes I admit it!!
But I have learned the lessons, I am still around to tell the tale, but it scares me to watch the disrespectful way people treat props. these days.
Propellers are not for:-
1. Radial engine pilots, to show off to the crowd at an airshow how manly you are.
2. Turning while the engine is red hot, after shut down, 'cos it looks neater horizontal'
3. Pulling and pushing the aircraft in an out of the hangar.
4. Something you let your kids mess with while you stand and watch.
'ALL AIRCRAFT BITE FOOLS'
Which is as true today as it was years ago!!
In my nearly 50 years working on aircraft, I have seen the aftermath of turning props, a guy at Hawker aircraft Co. with half a face and an arm missing,(Sea Fury) an engineer friend of mine who nearly broke his hand a couple times when the engine kicked back,(Gipsy Majors) an aircraft started and ran away, in the hangar at full power, after a pilot decided to see what the compression was like on this particular engine.(Volkswagen)
I have had 12 stitches in my shoulder from the wind driven Generator on an Auster, and several scars from model aeroplane engines.........so that makes me??
Yes I admit it!!
But I have learned the lessons, I am still around to tell the tale, but it scares me to watch the disrespectful way people treat props. these days.
Propellers are not for:-
1. Radial engine pilots, to show off to the crowd at an airshow how manly you are.
2. Turning while the engine is red hot, after shut down, 'cos it looks neater horizontal'
3. Pulling and pushing the aircraft in an out of the hangar.
4. Something you let your kids mess with while you stand and watch.
Teaching the next generation since the RAF no longer allow Cadets to touch dangerous aeroplanes...
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ent=2300bb.jpg
Worlds' oldest aircraft carrier....
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ent=moggi2.jpg
Hand propping for cowards (me in the yellow) video clip...
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...neRunFFF06.flv
Doing the school run...
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...raweighing.jpg
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ent=2300bb.jpg
Worlds' oldest aircraft carrier....
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ent=moggi2.jpg
Hand propping for cowards (me in the yellow) video clip...
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...neRunFFF06.flv
Doing the school run...
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...raweighing.jpg
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Re Windy Militants post .. WD-40 makes an excellent starting assist fluid, along with ether .. and along with most stuff that comes in aerosol cans ..
WD-40 is regularly used by the tractor crowd, for their worn-out old diesels, because it doesn't produce the high explosive, engine-damaging, knock, that ether in a can, does .. but it still cranks them into life, just as effectively ..
WD-40 is regularly used by the tractor crowd, for their worn-out old diesels, because it doesn't produce the high explosive, engine-damaging, knock, that ether in a can, does .. but it still cranks them into life, just as effectively ..
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re Windy Militants post .. WD-40 makes an excellent starting assist fluid, along with ether .. and along with most stuff that comes in aerosol cans ..
WD-40 is regularly used by the tractor crowd, for their worn-out old diesels, because it doesn't produce the high explosive, engine-damaging, knock, that ether in a can, does .. but it still cranks them into life, just as effectively ..
WD-40 is regularly used by the tractor crowd, for their worn-out old diesels, because it doesn't produce the high explosive, engine-damaging, knock, that ether in a can, does .. but it still cranks them into life, just as effectively ..
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I am most certainly not kidding. What I stated is the truth. Why, the great concern?
All aerosols contain highly flammable ingredients, and WD-40 makes an excellent start-assist fluid for compression ignition engines, due to its lower volatility as compared to ether, and its lubricant/water dispersant additives.
All aerosols contain highly flammable ingredients, and WD-40 makes an excellent start-assist fluid for compression ignition engines, due to its lower volatility as compared to ether, and its lubricant/water dispersant additives.
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First, you should be running with an airfilter for your induction. The air filter should be positively secured to the induction such that it can't come loose or block the induction in any way. This prevents access to the induction for spraying "starting fluid."
Second, the most effective application of a starting fluid is during the starting process, not before. This puts you in a position of applying the material in the close presence of a moving propeller.
Third, most light airplane systems are updraft, unlike priming your car or tractor in which pouring fuel or spraying fluid down the induction puts the flammables downstream of the carb.
Fourth, so-called priming with the acceleration pump, or fogging the induction with "starting fluid" creates a fire hazard, particularly with a backfire by placing a volatile mixture near the front of the induction. Condensation of that mist, drips, runs, etc, can pool either in the induction or beneath it and create a fire which can be difficult to fight or put out.
Fifth, WD-40 isn't starting fluid, nor should it be used as such. Why not just pick up any number of flammable chemicals and spray it in your aircraft induction every time you want to start the engine? Why not just learn to use it properly when "starting fluid" isn't necessary.
Sixth, show me what engine manuacturer, or aircraft manufacturer recommends the use of "starting fluid" to do an engine start.
Learn to start the engine properly and it won't be an issue for you.
Second, the most effective application of a starting fluid is during the starting process, not before. This puts you in a position of applying the material in the close presence of a moving propeller.
Third, most light airplane systems are updraft, unlike priming your car or tractor in which pouring fuel or spraying fluid down the induction puts the flammables downstream of the carb.
Fourth, so-called priming with the acceleration pump, or fogging the induction with "starting fluid" creates a fire hazard, particularly with a backfire by placing a volatile mixture near the front of the induction. Condensation of that mist, drips, runs, etc, can pool either in the induction or beneath it and create a fire which can be difficult to fight or put out.
Fifth, WD-40 isn't starting fluid, nor should it be used as such. Why not just pick up any number of flammable chemicals and spray it in your aircraft induction every time you want to start the engine? Why not just learn to use it properly when "starting fluid" isn't necessary.
Sixth, show me what engine manuacturer, or aircraft manufacturer recommends the use of "starting fluid" to do an engine start.
Learn to start the engine properly and it won't be an issue for you.
SNS3. Homebuilt version of the VW, Stromberg auto carb mounted above and behind the crankcase, Leburg ignition with variable timing that fires at 3 degrees AFTER TDC below 600rpm to almost guarantee that the engine will never ever stop in flight due to slow running and to ensure no kick-back during starts. Buzzers tell you when the ignition system is live or when they are on low battery. Generator is a 15 amp Honda motorbike alt mounted where the flywheel used to go. Dual ignition with separate batteries that are independent. Fuel on, choke out, pump on, throttle set, ignitions off, 8 blades, fuel off (so it can never fly off alone!), throttle set, ignitions on, pull past TDC, started! It starts even easier now that the engine is run in.
I've not got a parking brake so I tie a slipknot that can be released from the cockpit after it has been looped through the spokes of the wheels and behind the seat. If the plane rolls forwards then the rope gets taught as it coils round the wheels and stops them rolling any further. Lightest parking brake in the world (green rope in the first video). Cheaper than chocks and can be safely removed once the pilot is strapped in.
We had to use starter fluid on the Webster Whirlwind engine to get it to fire. Not sure why that was other than the fact that the whole engine was home-made from bits of VW, bits of DAF and a home-made crankcase and crankshaft. (handpropping for cowards vide above)
I've not got a parking brake so I tie a slipknot that can be released from the cockpit after it has been looped through the spokes of the wheels and behind the seat. If the plane rolls forwards then the rope gets taught as it coils round the wheels and stops them rolling any further. Lightest parking brake in the world (green rope in the first video). Cheaper than chocks and can be safely removed once the pilot is strapped in.
We had to use starter fluid on the Webster Whirlwind engine to get it to fire. Not sure why that was other than the fact that the whole engine was home-made from bits of VW, bits of DAF and a home-made crankcase and crankshaft. (handpropping for cowards vide above)
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Sixth, show me what engine manuacturer, or aircraft manufacturer recommends the use of "starting fluid" to do an engine start.
And if you're concerned about fuel in the induction system never ever read the bit about cold weather starting for Gypsy Major engines. It involves holding the tail up so that when you tickle the carb you get a more even level of fuel in the inlet manifold!
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SNS3Guppy - My post's intention was not a recommendation for WD-40 for starting fluid for aircraft engines .. nor was it a recommendation that any starting fluid be used at all, except maybe in a rare and extreme situation.
My post was a warning that any aerosol used carelessly around an aircraft engine can create an ignition hazard .. as in someone spraying WD-40 around, to dry out or lubricate something. A small amount in an intake or even an aircleaner, could cause an engine to fire up, on a modest prop pull, even if spark sources had been disabled.
My post was a warning that any aerosol used carelessly around an aircraft engine can create an ignition hazard .. as in someone spraying WD-40 around, to dry out or lubricate something. A small amount in an intake or even an aircleaner, could cause an engine to fire up, on a modest prop pull, even if spark sources had been disabled.