Lee On Solent - The End?
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..... not forgetting Dunkeswell, where fixed-wing, rotary, microlight and parachuting takes place within a mile of a very active gliding site. All very safe and without serious problems.
If they can do it, I can't see the problem at Lee, except one of will.
If they can do it, I can't see the problem at Lee, except one of will.
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Has anyone asked an MP to demand this list of H&S issues from the police ?
And would it be possible for the GA/biz community to solve the apparent ATC problem somehow ? Self-funded/operated etc as happens elsewhere ?
Good luck to the campaign. I'm sick and tired of being LIED to by this government and those who are supposed to represent our interests (and I don't just mean aviation) : it's about time we all started to refuse to accept the "because we say so" line.
FF
And would it be possible for the GA/biz community to solve the apparent ATC problem somehow ? Self-funded/operated etc as happens elsewhere ?
Good luck to the campaign. I'm sick and tired of being LIED to by this government and those who are supposed to represent our interests (and I don't just mean aviation) : it's about time we all started to refuse to accept the "because we say so" line.
FF
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Come on folks. We know this will never be down to a H & S issue in the end. This is pure micro politics and anyone will face an uphill struggle to win over. No I don't mean youy should roll over and accespt it. But situations like these can often only be one with a war / total change. In this case the police would need to be removed as the airfield 'operator' and the owners leasing it to a private group / company who would operate it as a normal GA field.
Like many who used to enjoy my time at Southampton (Solent), this will be a great opertunity missed for a decent all weather (VFR) site, that this area lacks for GA traffic.
Like many who used to enjoy my time at Southampton (Solent), this will be a great opertunity missed for a decent all weather (VFR) site, that this area lacks for GA traffic.
The Socio-Economic Analysis of Daedalus Airfield, contributed to by Erinaceous Group plc seems to have played a role in supporting the decision taken about the fate of Lee On Solent.
Two immediate comments:
1. The operations of the Erinaceous Group was the topic of an extensive discussion in The Sunday Times, 04Nov07, not particularly placing the organisation in a good light.
2. There are some suggestions that Shoreham, under the stewardship of the co-author of the above report, is under some significant financial strain.
Not sure anyone could realistically accept this report as being objective...?
Two immediate comments:
1. The operations of the Erinaceous Group was the topic of an extensive discussion in The Sunday Times, 04Nov07, not particularly placing the organisation in a good light.
2. There are some suggestions that Shoreham, under the stewardship of the co-author of the above report, is under some significant financial strain.
Not sure anyone could realistically accept this report as being objective...?
At Fairoaks yesterday, whilst I was in the circuit (along with 4 others), the Surrey Police helicopter, who is based there .. came on the AFIS frequency and said he wanted an immediate depart for a traffic emergency in Dorking.
By the time he had got his donks running and carried out his checks, the AFIS operator had time to make a suitable gap in the traffic and hover taxi him to where he could take advantage of it.
He taxied to a spot about 50 metres north of the runway and as I "Touched" and before I "go-ed" he lifted and passed over the top of me.
Perfectly simple, perfectly safe and with no delay to a Police Emergency call or disruption to the other users.
By the time he had got his donks running and carried out his checks, the AFIS operator had time to make a suitable gap in the traffic and hover taxi him to where he could take advantage of it.
He taxied to a spot about 50 metres north of the runway and as I "Touched" and before I "go-ed" he lifted and passed over the top of me.
Perfectly simple, perfectly safe and with no delay to a Police Emergency call or disruption to the other users.
Last edited by Dave Gittins; 5th Nov 2007 at 15:16.
My only object, as yours no doubt, is to demonstrate how easily it works at plenty of other places (I used to fly at Barton and the same thing happens at Luton amongst the commercial traffic) and how nonsensical is the situation at Lee.
DGG
DGG
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As I said earlier in the thread its mindless beaurocracy gone mad in politically correct and ridiculous UK, if its not this is ludicrous speed limits on a chuffin big lake in cumbria , No wonder people emigrate
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Hmm, I take it LFA have made the relevant people aware of all this and have pointed out the apparent conflict of interest with the Erinaceous report??
I think its all well and good writing threads etc but I think some form of action, and by that I mean lobbying MP etc, needs to be taken by all who have (or would like to have) an interest in flying from Lee.
I have emailed Peter Viggers the MP for Gosport and he sounded very positive. Perhaps more people should contact him to show him how much support LOS airfield actually has in the GA community.
Come on folks...the clock's ticking...
Spamcan
I think its all well and good writing threads etc but I think some form of action, and by that I mean lobbying MP etc, needs to be taken by all who have (or would like to have) an interest in flying from Lee.
I have emailed Peter Viggers the MP for Gosport and he sounded very positive. Perhaps more people should contact him to show him how much support LOS airfield actually has in the GA community.
Come on folks...the clock's ticking...
Spamcan
From the Southern Echo Web site at:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/late...in_commons.php
MP to raise Daedalus flying ban in Commons By Matt Smith.
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/late...in_commons.php
MP to raise Daedalus flying ban in Commons By Matt Smith.
A BAN on flights at a Hampshire airbase which has left aviation firms facing closure is to be challenged at the 11th hour in the House of Commons.
The night before a flight ban comes into effect at HMS Daedalus, a Hampshire MP will call on ministers for a postponement.
Gosport MP Peter Viggers, pictured above, wants time to find a way to work around the health and safety ruling by Hampshire police, which runs the airfield at Lee-on-the-Solent.
It is home to flying groups, individual pilots and aviation businesses who were given just 30 days to find another home or cease trading.
Mr Viggers, a former pilot, has been allowed to hold an adjournment debate on the issue on Thursday.
He said: "I am shocked that flying should be under threat at Daedalus, particularly because there is strong local support for Daedalus to be redeveloped as a business park with an aviation and maritime engineering theme."
"I will tell ministers in advance that a simple restatement of the closure decision will not be acceptable. What we need is a delay in the decision while we work out sensible arrangements for the continuation of flying at Daedalus. This will give us the time to work out longer term plans."
The leader of Fareham Borough Council, Sean Woodward, has already written to the police demanding an explanation.
Police chiefs said they took the decision on the grounds of health and safety following the removal of air traffic control cover by the Ministry of Defence.
There have been restrictions on flights since May because of safety fears about powered planes and gliders sharing the airspace.
The Lee Flying Association, which represents general aviation at the airfield, has appointed a solicitor to take legal action.
Coastguard helicopters and police spotter planes will continue to use the site, which is also home to the Portsmouth Naval Gliding Club.
The night before a flight ban comes into effect at HMS Daedalus, a Hampshire MP will call on ministers for a postponement.
Gosport MP Peter Viggers, pictured above, wants time to find a way to work around the health and safety ruling by Hampshire police, which runs the airfield at Lee-on-the-Solent.
It is home to flying groups, individual pilots and aviation businesses who were given just 30 days to find another home or cease trading.
Mr Viggers, a former pilot, has been allowed to hold an adjournment debate on the issue on Thursday.
He said: "I am shocked that flying should be under threat at Daedalus, particularly because there is strong local support for Daedalus to be redeveloped as a business park with an aviation and maritime engineering theme."
"I will tell ministers in advance that a simple restatement of the closure decision will not be acceptable. What we need is a delay in the decision while we work out sensible arrangements for the continuation of flying at Daedalus. This will give us the time to work out longer term plans."
The leader of Fareham Borough Council, Sean Woodward, has already written to the police demanding an explanation.
Police chiefs said they took the decision on the grounds of health and safety following the removal of air traffic control cover by the Ministry of Defence.
There have been restrictions on flights since May because of safety fears about powered planes and gliders sharing the airspace.
The Lee Flying Association, which represents general aviation at the airfield, has appointed a solicitor to take legal action.
Coastguard helicopters and police spotter planes will continue to use the site, which is also home to the Portsmouth Naval Gliding Club.
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Much more information on http://www.eghf.co.uk/
LFA are fighting hard. The battle is not won yet. If you live in Hampshire, please contact your local councilor before Tuesdays Police Authority meeting.
If you care enough to write something on this board, please consider contributing to the fighting fund. Click on ‘Donate’ on the above website.
LFA are fighting hard. The battle is not won yet. If you live in Hampshire, please contact your local councilor before Tuesdays Police Authority meeting.
If you care enough to write something on this board, please consider contributing to the fighting fund. Click on ‘Donate’ on the above website.
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This is absolutely hilarious!
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/late...ts_own_ban.php
List of Hampshire Police Authority Members
http://www.hampshirepoliceauthority....mbersstaff.htm
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/late...ts_own_ban.php
List of Hampshire Police Authority Members
http://www.hampshirepoliceauthority....mbersstaff.htm
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You will need to telephone the members of the Hampshire Police Authority. Their telephone numbers are mostly published as per Mike's link above. One can only assume that as the numbers are published they will not mind taking your call. The meeting is on Tuesday.
You can view the report that the Chief Constable proposes to give as part of the meeting agenda here: http://www.hampshirepoliceauthority....lus_update.doc On the basis that things have moved on a bit since this report was written it will be interesting to see what the Chief Constable really has to say.
It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Chief Constable is being very badly advised - how the Hampshire Constabulary think they can revise the terms of the Chicago Convention is beyond me. My suggestion to him would be, 'When in a hole, stop digging'. Hampshire Police would be well advised to get back to their core business of catching criminals and leave running airfields to those who are actually competent to do so.
You can view the report that the Chief Constable proposes to give as part of the meeting agenda here: http://www.hampshirepoliceauthority....lus_update.doc On the basis that things have moved on a bit since this report was written it will be interesting to see what the Chief Constable really has to say.
It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Chief Constable is being very badly advised - how the Hampshire Constabulary think they can revise the terms of the Chicago Convention is beyond me. My suggestion to him would be, 'When in a hole, stop digging'. Hampshire Police would be well advised to get back to their core business of catching criminals and leave running airfields to those who are actually competent to do so.
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Thanks for the updates.
It's good to see people standing up for themselves, which is all too rare in this modern police state we live in.
UK populace apathy makes us all complicit in the demise of our rights.
I do not exclude myself in this statement.
The threatened closure of LoS is just another bookmark in the continuous errosion of all that we in this country have taken for granted for so long, and have allowed to be taken from us or "carried out on our behalf" without so much as a wimper.
And I don't just mean in aviation.....
(looks like the dog's in for a bit of grief this morning!)
It's good to see people standing up for themselves, which is all too rare in this modern police state we live in.
UK populace apathy makes us all complicit in the demise of our rights.
I do not exclude myself in this statement.
The threatened closure of LoS is just another bookmark in the continuous errosion of all that we in this country have taken for granted for so long, and have allowed to be taken from us or "carried out on our behalf" without so much as a wimper.
And I don't just mean in aviation.....
(looks like the dog's in for a bit of grief this morning!)
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Hampshire Police would be well advised to get back to their core business of catching criminals and leave running airfields to those who are actually competent to do so.
The Hampshire Chief Constable seems to think he is the Law, instead of what he really is, a servant of the Law.
Good Luck to all at LoS!
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/mostpopul...ges_ruling.php
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Big Up for Peter Viggers MP
Just watched his adjournment debate on the web. It was marvelous.
Several reasons:
1) Parliament, democracy in action. Fascinating,
2) His eloquent putting of the argument (Unlike my last sentance)
3) Dragging a Govt Minister away from his:
Family/Girlfriend/Boyfriend/MasonicLodge/Opus Dei meeting/Pub (delete as nec)
4) The support from neighbouring MPs
All in all, a tour-de-force which actually appears to have worked
A lesson for all of us fighting against restrictions or reducing access to facilities. Clearly, even if we don't listen to what goes on in the House late at night, Chief Constables do and take note of the preceedings.
I actually don't know which Party Mr Viggers represents but he can be Minister of Transport any day.
Sir George
Several reasons:
1) Parliament, democracy in action. Fascinating,
2) His eloquent putting of the argument (Unlike my last sentance)
3) Dragging a Govt Minister away from his:
Family/Girlfriend/Boyfriend/MasonicLodge/Opus Dei meeting/Pub (delete as nec)
4) The support from neighbouring MPs
All in all, a tour-de-force which actually appears to have worked
A lesson for all of us fighting against restrictions or reducing access to facilities. Clearly, even if we don't listen to what goes on in the House late at night, Chief Constables do and take note of the preceedings.
I actually don't know which Party Mr Viggers represents but he can be Minister of Transport any day.
Sir George
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I understand the matter will be discussed at Hampshire Police Authority today and again at the main County Council Meeting on Thursday.
If you live in Hampshire, you can find details of your county councilor here: http://www3.hants.gov.uk/yourcouncil...councillor.htm
Please write or e-mail them before Thursday with your (constructive) views. Abuse and ill informed comment is not helpful. It might be useful to give them direction to this forum which puts most points that need to be raised.
If you live in Hampshire, you can find details of your county councilor here: http://www3.hants.gov.uk/yourcouncil...councillor.htm
Please write or e-mail them before Thursday with your (constructive) views. Abuse and ill informed comment is not helpful. It might be useful to give them direction to this forum which puts most points that need to be raised.