Presentation assistance:green-ness
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Presentation assistance:green-ness
I've been asked to give a presentation about display flying to a local group of worthies who are considering running an event in 2008.
The majority of bases are covered, spectator size, demographics, costs. diversity of acts, etc.
In the invitation it was suggested that I highlight any beneficial green issues as to help assuage the conscience of the green lobby.
Apart from the fact that we (GA) now use 100LL rather than 100/130 and that there are great leaps fwd in diesel engines that could in future burn bio-ethanol, are there any positive boxes that could be ticked from a "green" perspective?
How green is Ondina?
Thanks
Stik
The majority of bases are covered, spectator size, demographics, costs. diversity of acts, etc.
In the invitation it was suggested that I highlight any beneficial green issues as to help assuage the conscience of the green lobby.
Apart from the fact that we (GA) now use 100LL rather than 100/130 and that there are great leaps fwd in diesel engines that could in future burn bio-ethanol, are there any positive boxes that could be ticked from a "green" perspective?
How green is Ondina?
Thanks
Stik
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
From: East Anglia
If you only use local acts then there is no ferrying.
Ondina/Marcol is non carcinogenis whereas Diesel was thought to be carcinogenic.
Don't know what the actual numbers are but the fuel consumed during an airshow must have an equivalent in the amount of methane emitted by X sheep/pigs/cows.
ZA
Ondina/Marcol is non carcinogenis whereas Diesel was thought to be carcinogenic.
Don't know what the actual numbers are but the fuel consumed during an airshow must have an equivalent in the amount of methane emitted by X sheep/pigs/cows.
ZA
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
From: Here and there. Here at the moment but soon I'll be there.
Stik, you will have work to do to prove that flying is a "green" pasttime, especially while blowing diesel smoke out at the same time.
Airfields can be good for bio-diversity if managed properly and sensitively, that's about all you could use as a positive.
ZA, I'd like to see you prove that theory! 
Airfields can be good for bio-diversity if managed properly and sensitively, that's about all you could use as a positive.
Don't know what the actual numbers are but the fuel consumed during an airshow must have an equivalent in the amount of methane emitted by X sheep/pigs/cows.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 0
From: E Anglia
My son and I had a day out at MIRAS courtesy of Volvo earlier this year , trying all the Volvo range on mud tracks, skid pans and steep slopes.
At the end of the day to off set the carbon thingy or whatever the jargon is, all participants were given a small shrub (actually tiny crab apple tree) to plant.
You'd really wow them if you turned up to the presentation with a small shrub (not in pot but paper-wrapped) for each committee member:
Wouldn't cost you much but impact would be immense on the carbon lefties.
Cusco
At the end of the day to off set the carbon thingy or whatever the jargon is, all participants were given a small shrub (actually tiny crab apple tree) to plant.
You'd really wow them if you turned up to the presentation with a small shrub (not in pot but paper-wrapped) for each committee member:
Wouldn't cost you much but impact would be immense on the carbon lefties.
Cusco
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
From: Here and there. Here at the moment but soon I'll be there.
Cusco may have a plan, try and make the event carbon neutral. Buy some trees and have them planted on behalf of the event. I'm sure there are organisations who can provide advice on carbon offset.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_tree
At least now when my girlfriend talks about sycamore I know she isn't talking about sycamore...
At least now when my girlfriend talks about sycamore I know she isn't talking about sycamore...
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk UK
Platanus x hispanica (London Plane)
They make damned big trees, so just one would make a big positive carbon impact and a nice present.
Probably get one at Blooms of Bressingham but may not be cheap!
Lister
PS That's if you belive all this Cr*p about carbon footprints
They make damned big trees, so just one would make a big positive carbon impact and a nice present.
Probably get one at Blooms of Bressingham but may not be cheap!
Lister
PS That's if you belive all this Cr*p about carbon footprints
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
From: East Anglia
ZA, I'd like to see you prove that theory!
ZA
Flatulent sheep cause global warming
Scientists in New Zealand are working to reduce the threat posed by one of the country's principle causes of global warming - flatulent sheep.
Methane - produced by sheep and cows breaking wind - is the second most important greenhouse gas after carbon dioxide.
If boffins can stop its production in the animals, it could contribute significantly to slowing the greenhouse effect.
Scientists in New Zealand, where 43% of greenhouse gases come from this source, and France, where 15% of methane emissions are from cows, are working on the problem.
New Zealand has 40 million sheep and 10 milion cows, according to a report on the Wired News website.
The gas is produced by microbes in the animals' stomach and tests on sheep have so far shown that they could live without the microbes.
Lambs born and raised in a sterile environment, without the microbes, have grown heathily . Now scientists have to find a way of safely removing the microbes from farmed sheep.
As well as lowering greenhouse gases, researchers think removing the microbes could improve the performance of the animals. The methane produced is a loss of energy that could be directed into producing milk, wool or meat.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 20
From: I have no idea but the view's great.
Health Warning: The following calculations could be complete bo11ocks.
One litre of aviation fuel has a density of the order of 0.72 kg/l
Hydrocarbon fuels are made up of hydrogen and carbon in a ratio of 2:1
The carbon is converted to CO2 and all the hydrogen to H2O
Carbon has an atomic weight of 12, hydrogen an atomic weight of 1 and oxygen an atomic weight of 16
Each litre of fuel will produce 3.5 kg of CO2
The most oft quoted figure I've found is that planting one tree will, over its lifetime, offset 650kg of CO2
So, one tree equals 185 litres of AVGAS
If you believe that then I'd like to talk to you about buying London Bridge but, as you know, bu11s!t baffles brains.
One litre of aviation fuel has a density of the order of 0.72 kg/l
Hydrocarbon fuels are made up of hydrogen and carbon in a ratio of 2:1
The carbon is converted to CO2 and all the hydrogen to H2O
Carbon has an atomic weight of 12, hydrogen an atomic weight of 1 and oxygen an atomic weight of 16
Each litre of fuel will produce 3.5 kg of CO2
The most oft quoted figure I've found is that planting one tree will, over its lifetime, offset 650kg of CO2
So, one tree equals 185 litres of AVGAS
If you believe that then I'd like to talk to you about buying London Bridge but, as you know, bu11s!t baffles brains.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
From: Right here
The total amount of Avgas sold during one year is roughly the same as the amount of gas sold in one average sized gas station.
Those figures are for Sweden, but I'd imagine it's the same elsewhere.
So if it helps, you could point out that our activities are entirely inconsequential compared to pretty much anything else (flatulent sheep possibly excluded)...
Those figures are for Sweden, but I'd imagine it's the same elsewhere.
So if it helps, you could point out that our activities are entirely inconsequential compared to pretty much anything else (flatulent sheep possibly excluded)...
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts Bay Colony
Seriously? "assuage the conciense of the green lobby" at an airshow? Now I've heard everything.
How about, for starters, aviation only accounts for 3-5% of the total carbon emissions worldwide, so it hardly earns all the flak it gets in the press. And that's commercial jet transport. General aviation like us are negligible in comparison to even that small 3-5%! It's just an easy political target. If any of the green lobby attend said airshow, unless they walk to it, they've got no right to have their concienses assuaged.
But, if we're going to take this seriously, consider the following:
1. It's purely a daytime activity, requiring no power for massive banks of lights like a night rugby world cup game (for example)
2. Most attendents will be local, meaning the overall carbon footprint for the event will actually be quite small as there will be very little travelling per person attending
3. The organisers could do some research into what species of flora and fauna live on the airfield, making the airfield itself a green preservation environment BECAUSE of, not in spite of, it's use as an airfield. How many of said species live on the nearest housing/industrial estates?
4. How about other contractors (caters, loos, etc). Are they all local, not only meaning travel issues but support of local businesses?
There's probably some other stuff I could think of over time. I was the Ground Director of Mildenhall's Air Fete for two years (average attendence, 300,000 over two days). Give me a shout and I can give you a few other things to think about.
Cheers,
Pitts2112
How about, for starters, aviation only accounts for 3-5% of the total carbon emissions worldwide, so it hardly earns all the flak it gets in the press. And that's commercial jet transport. General aviation like us are negligible in comparison to even that small 3-5%! It's just an easy political target. If any of the green lobby attend said airshow, unless they walk to it, they've got no right to have their concienses assuaged.
But, if we're going to take this seriously, consider the following:
1. It's purely a daytime activity, requiring no power for massive banks of lights like a night rugby world cup game (for example)
2. Most attendents will be local, meaning the overall carbon footprint for the event will actually be quite small as there will be very little travelling per person attending
3. The organisers could do some research into what species of flora and fauna live on the airfield, making the airfield itself a green preservation environment BECAUSE of, not in spite of, it's use as an airfield. How many of said species live on the nearest housing/industrial estates?
4. How about other contractors (caters, loos, etc). Are they all local, not only meaning travel issues but support of local businesses?
There's probably some other stuff I could think of over time. I was the Ground Director of Mildenhall's Air Fete for two years (average attendence, 300,000 over two days). Give me a shout and I can give you a few other things to think about.
Cheers,
Pitts2112
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Some v useful suggestions! I know that display flying is as about as eco-friendly as F1 racing but if I can demonstrate that we are aware of it and are trying to limit CO2 emissions there is hope.
BRL - risk of thread drift but I am sure that glider pic is Guy Westgate, a 747 driver in his day job. An amazing display. He was aero-towed to 4000' at a local display, as it takes such a time to get him up there, I was asked to start my routine whilst he was gaining altitude.
Having made sure that the glider and tug were clear to the south, I started my aerobatic routine at 2200' with a one and a half turn spin onto heading and finished some 6.5 mins later.
As I shut down and unstrapped I could hear a whooshing noise, looked up to see the glider doing warp factor 3 just above me, he then pulled up, rolled inverted and spun it inverted before his next pass. Awesome energy management.
I really wished that I'd seen the whole thing!
BRL - risk of thread drift but I am sure that glider pic is Guy Westgate, a 747 driver in his day job. An amazing display. He was aero-towed to 4000' at a local display, as it takes such a time to get him up there, I was asked to start my routine whilst he was gaining altitude.
Having made sure that the glider and tug were clear to the south, I started my aerobatic routine at 2200' with a one and a half turn spin onto heading and finished some 6.5 mins later.
As I shut down and unstrapped I could hear a whooshing noise, looked up to see the glider doing warp factor 3 just above me, he then pulled up, rolled inverted and spun it inverted before his next pass. Awesome energy management.
I really wished that I'd seen the whole thing!
