igso 480 engines - view on them?
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igso 480 engines - view on them?
Hi, looking at twin bo, got geared igso 480 lycoming engines, heard that you can't get parts, do they still make them?
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According to:
http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Lycoming/applic.html
the IGSO 480 was used in the following aircraft:
IGS0-480-A1A6 Beech Aircraft. Twin Bonanza (G-50), (H-50).
IGS0-480-A1B6 Beech Aircraft. Twin Bonanza a-50), Queen Air (U-8F).
C. Itoh.
IGSO-480-A1A6 C. Itoh.
IGSO-480-A1E6 Beech Aircraft. Queen Air (65).
IGSO-480-A1F3 Fuji T-3.
IGSO-480-A1F6 Fuji KM-2.
This company has them on their website:
http://www.coronacylinder.com/services.html
With:
IGSO-480 $37,500.00 (overhauled cylinders) $45,600.00 (factory new cylinders)
Aircraftspruce.com seems to carry some parts.
http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Lycoming/applic.html
the IGSO 480 was used in the following aircraft:
IGS0-480-A1A6 Beech Aircraft. Twin Bonanza (G-50), (H-50).
IGS0-480-A1B6 Beech Aircraft. Twin Bonanza a-50), Queen Air (U-8F).
C. Itoh.
IGSO-480-A1A6 C. Itoh.
IGSO-480-A1E6 Beech Aircraft. Queen Air (65).
IGSO-480-A1F3 Fuji T-3.
IGSO-480-A1F6 Fuji KM-2.
This company has them on their website:
http://www.coronacylinder.com/services.html
With:
IGSO-480 $37,500.00 (overhauled cylinders) $45,600.00 (factory new cylinders)
Aircraftspruce.com seems to carry some parts.
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Don't touch them with a long pole.
Why buy yourself so much potential trouble with a delicate overboosted engine like this when there are much more robust and easier to operate and maintain options.
Why buy yourself so much potential trouble with a delicate overboosted engine like this when there are much more robust and easier to operate and maintain options.
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thanks
Hi there,
just wanted to thank you for your help. After getting your note, I spoke to a local engine shop, and they confirmed your view/ info, although the price you quoted for OH low balled them, but helped me if you know what i mean.
Cheers
just wanted to thank you for your help. After getting your note, I spoke to a local engine shop, and they confirmed your view/ info, although the price you quoted for OH low balled them, but helped me if you know what i mean.
Cheers
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Sadly, the folks that badmouth the geared/supercharged Lycoming engines (IGSO480 & IGSO540) don't know what the heck they are talking about, unless...they refer to the pilots who positively absolutely don't know how to operate them properly...which is the vast majority of pilots, today.
OTOH, if these engines are operated carefully, by a pilot whom has been shown how, they can provide superlative service.
How good...?
FAA approved 2600 hours TBO, for certain operators, long ago.
Yes, and with minimal cylinder changes.
Younger folks simply are in the dark with these engines...why am I not surprised?
OTOH, if these engines are operated carefully, by a pilot whom has been shown how, they can provide superlative service.
How good...?
FAA approved 2600 hours TBO, for certain operators, long ago.
Yes, and with minimal cylinder changes.
Younger folks simply are in the dark with these engines...why am I not surprised?
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411 - I know what you mean, but, you don't know what happened before you bought it and it may bight you the day after you buy it or never.
Ultimately, they are powerful but delicate engines that need huge amounts of care.
There are better options, that's all I will say.
Ultimately, they are powerful but delicate engines that need huge amounts of care.
There are better options, that's all I will say.
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Javelin, you are certainly correct on one count...you don't know how the engines were operated by a previous owner.
However, if they have made it to 800 hours (or so) without blowing up and sending bits through the cowling...it may well indicate that the previuous operator knew what the heck he was doing.
Example:
Some of the older folks here might remember the movie actor...Danny Kaye.
He based his Beech QueenAir B80 at KVNY, and I knew him quite well.
His B80 was bought brand new, and when he sold it, it had 2000 hours on the airframe...with the same engines as when delivered.
If a Hollywood-type movie actor (who happens to be a well trained pilot) can fly his geared/supercharged Lycoming engines for a long time without much difficulty, just what does that say for the 'new' brand of pilot who might blow 'em up on the first ten takeoffs?
I would prefer to call it..sh!t for brains.
However, if they have made it to 800 hours (or so) without blowing up and sending bits through the cowling...it may well indicate that the previuous operator knew what the heck he was doing.
Example:
Some of the older folks here might remember the movie actor...Danny Kaye.
He based his Beech QueenAir B80 at KVNY, and I knew him quite well.
His B80 was bought brand new, and when he sold it, it had 2000 hours on the airframe...with the same engines as when delivered.
If a Hollywood-type movie actor (who happens to be a well trained pilot) can fly his geared/supercharged Lycoming engines for a long time without much difficulty, just what does that say for the 'new' brand of pilot who might blow 'em up on the first ten takeoffs?
I would prefer to call it..sh!t for brains.
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Gentlemen,
Your comments on the Lycoming "geared" engines are truly fascinating and far from reality. I have owned and re-built three Helio Super Couriers in which one was modified to the IGSO-480-G1A6 (340 HP) with the high out-put alternator.
Every one exceeded TBO by 200 hours and as of 2010 I got FAA approval to extend TBO to 1600 hours. The geared engine syndrome is far-fetched and if you know how to fly them, they are bullet-proof. I can manhandle the GO-480 all day long, and where to get parts is easy. Central Cylinder in Omaha, Nebraska has all the type certificates for all Lycoming geared engines.
They like to be run at high RPM, if you sit on the tarmac at 900 RPM for a while you get loaded up and have to replace plugs, they don't like that.
Want the real deal on "geared" engines? I'll be happy to set things straight.
Cheers
Mr. Helio
Your comments on the Lycoming "geared" engines are truly fascinating and far from reality. I have owned and re-built three Helio Super Couriers in which one was modified to the IGSO-480-G1A6 (340 HP) with the high out-put alternator.
Every one exceeded TBO by 200 hours and as of 2010 I got FAA approval to extend TBO to 1600 hours. The geared engine syndrome is far-fetched and if you know how to fly them, they are bullet-proof. I can manhandle the GO-480 all day long, and where to get parts is easy. Central Cylinder in Omaha, Nebraska has all the type certificates for all Lycoming geared engines.
They like to be run at high RPM, if you sit on the tarmac at 900 RPM for a while you get loaded up and have to replace plugs, they don't like that.
Want the real deal on "geared" engines? I'll be happy to set things straight.
Cheers
Mr. Helio
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I also fly geared Lycomings and as long as you operate them properly they will be reliable. The problem and bad rap arose because people were flying them like they would a direct drive engine. This will eat the gearbox up. You have to have positive drive at all times and let the props push the air and not the other way around.
That's why sometimes geared aircraft can be hard to slow down. You can't just chop the throttle like in normal aircraft - you have to run powered approaches. I only chop in the flare. Once you get used to that, they're easy to run.
That's why sometimes geared aircraft can be hard to slow down. You can't just chop the throttle like in normal aircraft - you have to run powered approaches. I only chop in the flare. Once you get used to that, they're easy to run.
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My first experience with geared Lycoming's was with the Aero Commander 680 in 1965 and as a co-pilot on trips from DTW to Ft. Lauderdale, FL..carry power to the flare and you are good to go..
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My 421 did over 800 hours whilst I owned it. Yes, the engines needed careful handling, but they never let me down. My normal planned en-route FL was from 200 250, I would aim for 60% power which would give a fuel flow of between 18 20 gall per side with a cruise of 200kts. I had the long range tanks so it gave great range in Europe. Typically I aimed to lean to 60degrees rich of peak on the worst cylinder, the POH says 50 ROP is most economical, 75 is best power so 60 seemed to work well for me.
Take off techniques was always hold on the brakes, slowly roll the power up to 60%, release brakes and continue to feed power on till you reached 100% - no abrupt firewalling of the throttle.
In descent to stop thermal shock worries I aimed to reduce MP by no more than 2 per minute (slow gradual reduction of throttle)
It took a while to get used to the concept of setting the power on approach and controlling descent / speed, with flaps and gear rather than using the throttles. The aim was that once the throttles had been set in approach configuration you tried not to touch them till you flared, aiming to fly the approach at 110kts, bleeding the speed as you went over the fence. I always tried to avoid minimum length runways, again with conservation of my engines in mind.
With the geared props I was always cautious to avoid plug fouling whilst on the ground, using the brakes to control ground speed with about 1200 on the props. Yes, it can be argued that it may have been harsh on the brakes, but they were cheap to get relined compared to a plug change or worse.
You might think all of this was excessive, the 421 was a great plane, comfortable, fast and at 40 gall per hour offered reasonable operating costs provided you respected the engines and avoided the high repair bills which other had experienced. All it took was a little forward thought and planning for the flight profile that you wanted to achieve.
My engines easily got to TBO, care, thought and caution was needed, as was the advice of people who had been operating similar engines for a long time. If your ham fisted or you chase the throttles on approach then its not the engine for you. I fly a Malbu Jetprop now, other than the obvious worry of it only being a single, the handling techniques for approach ect are very similar.
Take off techniques was always hold on the brakes, slowly roll the power up to 60%, release brakes and continue to feed power on till you reached 100% - no abrupt firewalling of the throttle.
In descent to stop thermal shock worries I aimed to reduce MP by no more than 2 per minute (slow gradual reduction of throttle)
It took a while to get used to the concept of setting the power on approach and controlling descent / speed, with flaps and gear rather than using the throttles. The aim was that once the throttles had been set in approach configuration you tried not to touch them till you flared, aiming to fly the approach at 110kts, bleeding the speed as you went over the fence. I always tried to avoid minimum length runways, again with conservation of my engines in mind.
With the geared props I was always cautious to avoid plug fouling whilst on the ground, using the brakes to control ground speed with about 1200 on the props. Yes, it can be argued that it may have been harsh on the brakes, but they were cheap to get relined compared to a plug change or worse.
You might think all of this was excessive, the 421 was a great plane, comfortable, fast and at 40 gall per hour offered reasonable operating costs provided you respected the engines and avoided the high repair bills which other had experienced. All it took was a little forward thought and planning for the flight profile that you wanted to achieve.
My engines easily got to TBO, care, thought and caution was needed, as was the advice of people who had been operating similar engines for a long time. If your ham fisted or you chase the throttles on approach then its not the engine for you. I fly a Malbu Jetprop now, other than the obvious worry of it only being a single, the handling techniques for approach ect are very similar.
