Converting from high wing to low wing

[peterw3001]

Hello

I have been advised by someone to not start flying a low wing aircraft until I have more experience. I have always flown Cessna 152's but my new flying club that I prefer over others only has Piper's.

I currently have a PPL with 77 hours in total of which 50 are under instruction and 27 are pilot in command.

It is inconvient for me to go to a different flying club with Cessna's. I was wondering whether starting flying a low wing aircraft with my level of experience is advised or not?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Peter

[S-Works]

Please tell me there is a big fat worm on the end of that hook?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Please tell me there is a big fat worm on the end of that hook?

??

Assuming it's a genuine question, the answer is that a couple of hours with an instructor should sort it.

[high-hopes]

I learned in low wing and "converted" to Cessna type in about 20 minutes with instructor.

It's not even a case of calling it conversion. Difference is hardly noticeable !

[Cusco]

Converting from one wing position to another will be a complete non-event.

Cusco

[Henry Hallam]

I was in a similar position - It'll take an hour or two to get used to the different aircraft, but the wing position has very little to do with it. There is no difference with handling in the air, landing technique may vary slightly due to ground effect but really no big deal.

High wing is better in hot weather though as you get some shade!

[n5296s]

Converting from one wing position to another will be a complete non-event

I can't agree with that. Look at the trouble they had getting the Osprey to work, if indeed it does.

[Whirlybird]

I think calling it a non-event is a bit of an exaggeration...unless you're a natural pilot, and I wouldn't know about those. I learned on low wing aircraft, and conversion to high wing took me a couple of hours. So no big deal, but don't beat yourself up if you don't manage it in 20 minutes.

[soay]

Originally Posted by Henry Hallam

High wing is better in hot weather though as you get some shade!

Not to mention shelter from the rain!

[shortstripper]

I think bose-x has it!

SS

[BackPacker]

I had my Cessna 172 checkout just last weekend. Before that I have flown a variety of low-wing aircraft (Robin, Piper, Diamond) and I have a little over 100 hours. It took me an hour before the instructor signed me out, although with a restriction that I should limit myself to moderate crosswinds and moderate weights for the first few hours. Fair enough - flying up to the limits of any aircraft with only one hour on type is not very wise.

So I'd like to echo what's been said before. Grab an instructor, go fly with him for a few hours and you should be fine.

Oh, and every time I want to prepare myself for getting checked out on a new type, I grab the POH, read through it quickly from cover to cover, and then specifically go through it again, looking for the following details:
- Operation of the fuel system - compare checklist items to description
- Operation of electric system - compare checklist items to description
- Preflight items: what specifically to look for, where are the drain points
- Speeds that are not color-coded on the ASI dial: Vr, Vx, Vy, Vglide, Vref
- Calculate reference take-off and landing distances for ISA, MTOW, nil wind and compare with other types I have flown
- Do a few W&B calculations for 2, 3 and 4 average adults, full fuel. See where the problems areas are.
- Figure out cruise performance numbers (RPMs, fuel flow, IAS etc) and leaning procedure

Armed with that knowledge and the club-approved checklists for normal and emergencies I find that an actual checkout is normally a breeze.

[Life's a Beech]

You'll find good landinngs easier to achieve once you're used to the new aircraft. Don't forget to change tanks - only serious design flaw of the PA28 is lack of 'both' position on the selector. Enjoy.

[easy307]

Backpacker, excellent post !

[BroomstickPilot]

High wing / Low wing

Hi Peterw3001,

The only difference is that you can't see anything like as much of the ground close to your track as you have been used to. So you have to be confident navigating using ground features that are further away.

If you have got into the bad habit of navigating by relying totally on features close to track then you could frighten yourself. You need to be confident navigating using features at greater distance from track. Some cross country time with an instructor might help.

Actual handling is little different, except cross wind landings.

I should say, provided you are confident about your navigation, conversion to low wing will be little problem.

Broomstick.

[BackPacker]

only serious design flaw of the PA28 is lack of 'both' position on the selector.

...and of course the selector is in a really hard to see place, next to your left knee.

Try to keep the fuel level in both wings more or less level, by changing tanks every half hour or so. Different people have different methods they use - find one that works for you. More than a few gallons difference left/right is noticeable in lateral trim. Technically, you could use rudder trim to correct, but most people recommend not to touch the rudder trim at all. I find it's not very effective anyway.

Another design flaw I find is the carb heat control knob. Right location, but very flimsy for a control you need to touch at least twice every circuit.

Oh, and what I find in the PA-28s in our club: Piper has offered too many options in the past. All our aircraft have a different history and as a result all Warriors have a different panel layout. Yes, the basic T is in the same location, as is the RPM. But we have four or five different locations for the "avionics master" switch, if present at all. Some have clocks, some don't (and one has the clock wired to the main bus instead of direct on the battery), some have an autopilot, some have GPS (3 different types altogether), there's at least three different types of transponders, two different types of audio selector panels and so forth. So every time you step into another one, you spend a minute or two looking for where is what. Not very confidence-inspiring to your passengers. I don't know yet about Cessnas, but at least Robins and Diamonds have the same knobs/instruments/avionics in the same location across different aircraft. (Granted, most of those were bought new from the factory by our club.)

[gcolyer]

When I had 57.3 hours i "converted" to a PA32. It took .5 hours with the owner who is a CPL/ME/IR instructor. The PA32 is a veriable pitch prob oversized PA28. I would not start worrying about converting to a low wing aircraft.

[SkyHawk-N]

peterw3001, the biggest challenges you will face (although not very big at all) will be judging the landing flare, controlling a greater tendency to float along the runway and changing your lookout when making turns, especially in the circuit. As has been said above it won't take long to 'convert' but getting totally comfortable with the new aircraft will take slightly longer.

[IFMU]

One of the big differences between the Cessnas and the Pipers is the nosegear. I think on most nosewheel pipers the nosewheel is hard connected to the pedals. So, if you do a crosswind landing, and touch the nose down with the rudder in, the airplane will dart to the side because of the offset nosewheel. In a Cessna nosedragger, the oleo strut lets the wheel spin where it may until it is compressed. So, when you plonk the nose down with a bunch of rudder, the wheel lines up with the direction of travel, and nothing unusual happens. But it's been years since I've flown a nosewheel cessna or piper, and I'm not sure how broadly this applies.

I also found, while at a low experience level, that it was easier to do a decent landing in the Pipers near max GW. I think the ground effect helps out a bit.

When I was a student pilot, I flew to Oshkosh with a guy that owned a Cherokee 6. He didn't understand the whole crosswind thing. Touched down crooked every time, my little tailwheel brain kept about shorting out. Last one was a biiig crosswind, he first had a big crab, but was looking out my window at the runway. So he straightened out the 6 without dipping the wing & using opposite rudder, so we immediately blew off centerline. He got us back on centerline in the big crab, then repeated the whole cycle. All 3 miles of final we did this dance. Finally touched down with that big crab angle, and I can vouch that the main gear on a Cherokee 6 is stout! Never was I so amazed to not have perished. It was an excellent way to learn crosswind, you can learn from a bad example surely as a good one.

-- IFMU