Ultra STOL aircraft

[Major Major]

The Storch is interesting indeed:

"By keeping the weight down to a minimum, yet keeping the aircraft structurally still very strong, (+6 -3), the Slepcev Storch is very original in both appearance and performance. The aircraft will fly at 22mph at full flap and 30% of power. Take off run into a 16mph wind is vertical with no forward roll."

I'd suggest the Maule is a different beast entirely though - 2 seat tandem lightweight Euro45k vs 4 seat 160mph $200k tourer with STOL capability.

[wilma80]

Try the Wilgaa 80

The Wilga is a great aircraft and will do the job like no other.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Loads and loads of planes can operate out of 200m grass.

I0540, you should stick to commenting on what you know about. There are not that many Group A aircraft which can operate out of 200m of grass and, of those which can, very few can do it at gross.

I do operate out of 200m grass strips in a 150 Super Cub and, as I said in my previous post, it does not matter at all how good the aircraft is, 200m is very short for most of us. To use a strip like this, you have to be able to place the aircraft ultra-precisely every time, you have to nail the speed with utter precision, you have to instinctively know and feel how your aircraft will handle at different weight and CG combinations, you have to have a very good sense of the wind and you need to have the sense to know when it isn't going to work. If there are also trees at the end, this guy is stacking the odds against himself to an absurd level.

If we were talking about a 5,000 hour Alaskan Super Cub pilot using this as his home strip I may be a little more forgiving, but in any other circumstances this is a disaster waiting to happen.

The most important thing to appreciate in flying is that there is often a surprisingly large gap between what is possible and what is actually sensible. It doesn't do to explore that interface too closely.

[eltonioni]

Perhaps the 200m is often more dependant on the pilot?
(all factors taken into account)

[Billredshoes]

Simply buy an AN2 its only 200lts per hour + 5 lts oil

[flyme273]

Rallye Minerva
Flight Manual for max weight sea level 15 deg slats + flaps 30 deg, ground run required is 120 metre. Landing run max weight 130 metres.

Figures are hard surface and dry. Factors for grass; take off wet grass 1.3 landing 1.35. This gives the critical condition of landing 180 metres.

Per previous post, would suggest acquisition of ajoining fields at least try for 300 metres.

Send PM if you want scan of Performance tables.

[Contacttower]

The most important thing to appreciate in flying is that there is often a surprisingly large gap between what is possible and what is actually sensible. It doesn't do to explore that interface too closely.

Indeed, thanks to everyone for their replies, but at the moment at least my question does remain theoretical. The field in question (as many have rightly guessed) would be very marginal for even the most experienced pilot and capable aircraft. QDM, the level of precision you describe is something I have yet to achieve in the Super Cub (although I'm sure I could with lots of practice)...it was just interesting to hear everyone's views and see what suggestions everyone had. I've always fancied an AN-2 though so perhaps I might come back to this question in a few years time...

[Pilot DAR]

QDM has it right here. 200M is achievable, but having operated a number of STOL types in and out of my own runway at 700' length, for over a year, I scared myself so many times that I lengthened it to 1400', then 2100'. No more worries now.

If you're really up to it, 200M will work for even a regular 172 if everything is going well, but grass, winds, gusts, obsticles etc. will get you one day. And when they do, did the prevailing conditions still qualify in the performance charts for the 200m requirement? Your insurance adjuster will be checking....

Just because it is possible, does not make it fun or safe...

Of the types mentioned, Wilga is the best choice. Zenith 701 gets off the ground quick, but can get stuck in ground effect badly. Husky, Cubs, STOL kitted 100 series Cessnas (not 177), and Maules can all do it, but one day it would be very scary.

Whenever I contemplate the wild thing, I ask myself: "would I want to be explaining the reasoning behind that decision to the insurance adjuster, and accident investigator?" Nope!

I'm presently learning on a Schwiezer 300.

Cheers, Pilot DAR

[shortstripper]

Zenith 701 gets off the ground quick, but can get stuck in ground effect badly.

That's a new one on me?

Anyway, back to the main topic ........

My strip is exactly 250 yards from one hedge to the other. One hedge is 10-15' high with 50' trees a further 200 yards on from that, and the other has a 25' high telephone cable 15 yards beyond it. However, it's flat and has the prevailing wind straight down the runway. My Slingsby, like many single seat PFA types, microlights and proper STOL aircraft can be operated perfectly safely from this length if the pilot has the right experience. The thing is, these types "could" operate from a strip half the length, so we have a safety margin. So, I "could" fly my Slingsby from a 100 yard strip, but there would be less margin, so I wouldn't contemplate it on a regular basis. Other aircraft that we've flown into and out of my strip include a Tigermoth, Supercub, VP2, and even a C150! (that one was a bit errrmm "squeeky"). It's safe enough to fly in now and then when the conditions are OK, but the safety margin is reduced. To operate these types regularly from the strip (or mine from 100 yards) would be courting disaster. There would always be an urge to fly on a nice day when maybe all the safety boxs aren't ticked! As QDM and others have said, what is possible and what is sensible, are two very different things.

SS

[krungbin]

STOL

And what about an "old" DHC 2 Beaver? Sure, the aircraft is 60 years old, as I am, but it takes off fullpayload (2000lds) on a 17O m run... And they are some turbo versions available on the market...i

[larssnowpharter]

One is rather surprised that no-one has mentioned the Helio Courier. With one up and low fuel could probably operate out of half that length.

Handley Page leading edge slats, trailing edge slotted flaps, main wheel castering allowing a 20knt cross wind, tried and tested design. What more do you want. Unless you go for a Stallion!

Oh yes, and great low speed handling.

Have seen them on the market in recent years from around $78K upwards.

[Arclite01]

Pilot DAR is right about what he says and leads to another thing.

What about EFATO ?

Arc

[exlatccatsa]

Take a look at this c182 conversion. http://www.katmai-260se.com/ you wanted 200m .. this'll take off at max weight (2950lbs) in 400 feet!!
1000nm range 150kt cruise stalls at 35kts.. wish i had one!!

[QDMQDMQDM]

One is rather surprised that no-one has mentioned the Helio Courier. With one up and low fuel could probably operate out of half that length.

Handley Page leading edge slats, trailing edge slotted flaps, main wheel castering allowing a 20knt cross wind, tried and tested design. What more do you want. Unless you go for a Stallion!

Oh yes, and great low speed handling.

Have seen them on the market in recent years from around $78K upwards.

The Couriers are utterly unbelievable aircraft, but two problems:

1. No spares availability
2. The geared lycomings. Expensive to overhaul and can bugger them up if you don't look after them well.

[flugholm]

And if the Helio Courier and Stallion get a mention, the wonderful Dornier Do 27 (and Do 28 and Do 128) should get a mention as well.

Did someone say "money no object"?

No? Well, then...

[Pilot DAR]

Yeah, I guest that not only do you have to pay more to go faster, you have to pay more to go slower too!