Is It A Wonder Accidents Happen!!

[eltonioni]

First post after months of lurking but here goes...

Originally Posted by bose-x

I flew a Chipmunk to Lille and back via Calais to display it. VFR with only a radio.

Personally I'd prefer to have a compass, wristwatch, ASI and altimeter.

Gents (not just bose-x), I may have bugger all flying experience compared to you but this sort of silly chest puffing is why I've never posted in this forum before. You're setting a very bad example to students, new PPL's and giving a really bad impression of pilots to the world at large.

If you feel the need and competency to do your checks on the run then fair enough but please keep it to yourself and let everyone else do it thoroughly. There are enough PA28 shaped holes in the ground already this year.

[englishal]

of silly chest puffing is why I've never posted in this forum before

And that is the problem with this place, and sometimes it does my head in so much that I leave for a while...

Everyone is an expert, so someone says "he took off without doing any pre-flight checks" and everyone else gos "oooh, what bad airmanship". Then someone pipes up and says, "hang on, pre-flight checks can be done rather quickly you know" and then the new PPL wannabe pipes up "oooh, he didn't use a checklist, what bad airmanship, my instructor ALWAYS insists I use one", then someone else pipes up in suppport of the first person, and then they are accused of setting a bad example to students. Then DFC quotes chapter and verse from his "How to be a really good pilot in theory" book and the whole thread de-generates into "I'm going to tell my dad on you", schoolkid rubbish.

It goes back to what GEMMA says:

My instructor mentioned he is currently putting together a new checklist with the REASONS why we do the checks added.

Which is precisely correct. If you understand the REASONS why you do a preflight check then you don't nescessarily need to take an age to do them or use a checklist (actually GEMMA another reason for the carb heat check is to ensure there is not already cab ice present too). I don't want my aeroplane falling apart in the air any more than the next person, but I understand that if the stabilator is firmly attached, all securing screws, locking wire, and mountings look ok (and the same as normal) then I can be reasonably sure that I will be ok. I can of course waggle it until the cows come home in the hope that it will fall off in my hands....

Everyone knows water in fuel can be a killer, there has more than one person been killed by water in fuel who HAS checked their tanks.....the water had frozen, only to melt after take off when the tanks have warmed. DFC's wonderful procedues would not catch this, though I would say that Bose's POST FLIGHT / POST refuel might.

Anway, each to their own....I'm not going to NOT do anything which is going to risk my neck or anyone elses up there...

Safe flying.

[High Wing Drifter]

didn't occur to me before if there was no drop at all, the linkage might have come off

What about the gotcha when the shroud/box (not sure what the technical term is) has corroded/is defective to the extent that it is leaking in cold air, meaning that the carb heat effect is reduced - it is in fact supplying partial heat to the venturi. I suspect that theoretically, partial heat is worse than no heat as it may quite likely induce icing conditions with no options for a thaw!!

[bjornhall]

Originally Posted by G-EMMA

I actually stopped using my checklist on the external checks ages ago, I actually found worrying about the checklist made me forget things as I put it down to check fuel levels, then had to go back to pick it up.

Have found the exact same thing... Far more effective to focus on what I'm doing, instead of trying to keep track of which line I'm on in the list...

I'm not sure I've ever actually seen anyone use a checklist on an external preflight, except the occasional student; go figure...

[AerocatS2A]

I think that if you were to use a checklist for a walk around, it might be best to do the walk around without it, and then run through the checklist to make sure you didn't forget anything. Any checklist that is used as a "do-list" is slow and inefficient IMO.

[scubawasp]

It is a checklist, NOT a read and do list or it would be called that. But I am quilty of making all my students read and do.

[High Wing Drifter]

I think that overall, for a single pilot, a checklist is best treated as a read and do when on the ground That does not preclude knowing what you are doing though! Even in multi-crew some of the checks are read and do by some SOPs.

[Slopey]

What about the gotcha when the shroud/box (not sure what the technical term is) has corroded/is defective to the extent that it is leaking in cold air, meaning that the carb heat effect is reduced - it is in fact supplying partial heat to the venturi.

I have a Carb Temp gauge in the 172 which I find very reassuring - especially when the needle pops up with the heat on

[S-Works]

I have a fuel injected engine.....

[AerocatS2A]

Fuel injected engines are not immune from induction icing. It has "alternate air" or something similar?

[maxdrypower]

True but it is not something that can be selected and tested during powerchecks etc

[S-Works]

According to my POH my engine is "not vulnerable" to induction icing however does have an automatic switch over thingy on top of the engine to draw air from inside the cowl should the external port become iced over.

[maxdrypower]

Hmm my understanding , as little as it is , is that induction icing affects carburettors due to venturis and such like , Fuel Inj doesnt have one so where does the induction icing come from???????
not a flippant comment , a genuine question

[AerocatS2A]

True but it is not something that can be selected and tested during powerchecks etc

Not necessarily. IF you have an alternate air lever/knob, it can be selected and tested during power checks. You should note a slight drop in RPM. In the piston engined aircraft I fly it is only noticeable because it's a twin and you can hear the props go out of sync. If you're in a single then the drop may not be noticeable enough to test.

I used to fly an aeroplane with only two wheels, no mixture control, no brakes, automatic slats and automatic carb heat. I never did see a check list for it.

[AerocatS2A]

Hmm my understanding , as little as it is , is that induction icing affects carburettors due to venturis and such like , Fuel Inj doesnt have one so where does the induction icing come from???????
not a flippant comment , a genuine question

It is rare but they can get ice forming around the induction inlet. I think it is associated with airframe icing. So not like carb ice that you can get in nice weather.

Edit: Which is what Bose-X was just talking about I believe.

[S-Works]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2510713.ece

[DFC]

Good heads up on the article.

Ah, the old misconception that a pre-fligth is not required if the aircraft is left alone on the apron for a period of time during the day.

The pre-flight inspection should be the last thing one does before entering the aircraft to depart and as was explained earlier, should be done every time.

If one sticks to that then one would naturally complete an inspection every flight just before boarding and when the re-fueling and water checks have been done etc etc to check for loose caps, dripping drains etc and (as done a short time ago at a big airport in the South) leaving a manual on the wing which deposited a ream of pages across the runway!

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englishal,

I read that story about the ice in the fuel elsewhere also.

Regards,

DFC