Is It A Wonder Accidents Happen!!
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As dear old Winston said'ish:
"Everyone believes in free speech. A day cannot pass without it being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they can say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that's outrageous."
"Everyone believes in free speech. A day cannot pass without it being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they can say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that's outrageous."
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had birds decide to live in it
Re: power checks on the run: in my Sundowner, runups are done at 2200 rpm which is rather furious. The one place I do this, is at a field where the ramp is most often at the opposite end of the runway from where you start your takeoff roll, and where space is lacking to do a runup without blasting debris on other aircraft or people. It's a 3800 ft runway so you can do the power check at a rather fast taxi, quickly (mags check basically; you can do the gauge scan on the takeoff roll as there is plenty of room to abort), and bring RPM back. Or you can start your takeoff roll at 2200 rpm, do the mag checks quickly, quick scan of the gauges, full power, and takeoff. Obviously, you need enough runway for that. With 3800 ft of pavement, not a problem.
However if space is available, I always do a full runup, and run through the pre-takeoff checklist; there are enough items on that, so if you don't, a "gotcha" is possible.
I assumed that pre-flight checks included all before flying not just the ones outside the aircraft!
To me a "pre-flight" is the outside checks. So I'd be surprised to see someone using a checklist for the daily inspection, but not surprised to see them used for after start and taxi checks.
Oh and I'd answer B.
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Nah, Bose won't have been banned....you can't get banned for speaking the truth or else that would be censorship 
Last edited by englishal; 15th Sep 2007 at 06:58.
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I guess it's inevitable there are pilots out there who are going to be more dangerous than the rest of us. This is all part of the human condition, and they don't really check your personality in your medical examination. In two pilot airline operations they have things like CRM which should reduce the risk of a maverick pilot, but that doesn't happen in single pilot ops.
I guess a knee jerk reaction would be to regulate, but do we want extra regulation (which probably wouldn't stop it) to apply to all of us?
I do think the more experienced pilots (measured by hours) should set a good example to the more inexperienced ones (measured by hours).
I guess a knee jerk reaction would be to regulate, but do we want extra regulation (which probably wouldn't stop it) to apply to all of us?
I do think the more experienced pilots (measured by hours) should set a good example to the more inexperienced ones (measured by hours).
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Can those that advocate such a method please describe just how they complete the power checks while taxiing?
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On a very soft field, I also would not wish to stop and wait for the wheels to sink into the mud but I think that the discussion was not startd by comments about a pilot on floats or at a very soft field.
How does water get into fuel?.........usually because it is always there in the first place. Why wait 45 minutes without allowing the aircraft to move even slightly post refueling for most of the water to come out of suspension when it will be nicely settled by the next morning and if not 100% full, any condensation may also be caught.
Perhaps it is a hermetically sealed bone dry heated hangar?..........never mind, after cruise at cold temperatures a cold soaked wing takes a long time to warm up and there wll be plenty of moisture introduced during the refueling process...which can not be done inside the hangar.
To be absolutely sure that the fuel is free from all water one needs to use a kit supplied by shell or similar eg detection tablets....but I bet there is not s single piston engine pilot here (me included) that goes that far each day.
Regards,
DFC
How does water get into fuel?.........usually because it is always there in the first place. Why wait 45 minutes without allowing the aircraft to move even slightly post refueling for most of the water to come out of suspension when it will be nicely settled by the next morning and if not 100% full, any condensation may also be caught.
Perhaps it is a hermetically sealed bone dry heated hangar?..........never mind, after cruise at cold temperatures a cold soaked wing takes a long time to warm up and there wll be plenty of moisture introduced during the refueling process...which can not be done inside the hangar.
To be absolutely sure that the fuel is free from all water one needs to use a kit supplied by shell or similar eg detection tablets....but I bet there is not s single piston engine pilot here (me included) that goes that far each day.
Regards,
DFC
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Still reading these posts, but feel unwilling to repeat myself. From a psychological perspective, one could suggest that those rushing to defend the unidentified flyer from Scouseflyers comments, may have been subconsciously and later more consciously defending their own routine behaviour. The shakesperian "methinks he doth protest too much" springs to mind.
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Good on them if they did but was it each individual aircraft tank that was sampled or the bowser / fuel storage tanks that they refueled from?
When storing and distributing fuel then there is a requirment to do more checking than we do on the aircraft.
Regards,
DFC
When storing and distributing fuel then there is a requirment to do more checking than we do on the aircraft.
Regards,
DFC
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From a psychological perspective, one could suggest that those rushing to defend the unidentified flyer from Scouseflyers comments, may have been subconsciously and later more consciously defending their own routine behaviour. The shakesperian "methinks he doth protest too much" springs to mind.
DFC
You are right. You cant be too careful with fuel, ever. I recall filling up in France once. I had drained the tanks - not a drop of water. I always drain the tanks after a refuel as well - probably over cautious but old habits etc.
Fortunately I did. There was a load of water. I am afraid it could only have come from the fuel.
Jet A1 is another issue!
There was an accident in South Australia many years ago when a home-built flown by an private pilot crashed killing himself and his companion (who also was a pilot).
The investigation revealed the aircraft suffered from fuel exhaustion about 3 minutes from take-off. It also revealed that the aircraft had been refuelled the previous day. The investigators went to where it had been tied down outside and saw impressions in the grass where some ar$ehole had place a drum and defuelled it. There were traces of fuel around the perimeter of the impression.
While the person who stole the fuel has the deaths of two people on his conscience, the ultimate reason for the crash was the PIC failed to verify the quantity of fuel on board, which would (or should) have been found by, wait for it..................
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A "THOROUGH PRE-FLIGHT INSPECTION"
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...199901340.aspx
The investigation revealed the aircraft suffered from fuel exhaustion about 3 minutes from take-off. It also revealed that the aircraft had been refuelled the previous day. The investigators went to where it had been tied down outside and saw impressions in the grass where some ar$ehole had place a drum and defuelled it. There were traces of fuel around the perimeter of the impression.
While the person who stole the fuel has the deaths of two people on his conscience, the ultimate reason for the crash was the PIC failed to verify the quantity of fuel on board, which would (or should) have been found by, wait for it..................
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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A "THOROUGH PRE-FLIGHT INSPECTION"
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...199901340.aspx
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Here's another possible "catch" in a pre-flight. When my best flying buddy was being checked out on my Sundowner by an instructor, I nervously pranced around the tarmac like an expectant daddy. I noticed in the run-up that the engine seemed a bit rough. They did the checkout, and came back and both the instructor and my buddy said "the engine is really rough", well 
I heard it too. They went about theorizing...I popped my head in the cockpit and found that the primer knob was not fully in and locked. And guess what one checklist item is? "Primer locked". I pushed it in, locked it, and performed another runup for my buddy, and the engine ran flawlessly.
A good lesson was learned by all. Checklists are there for a reason, as are all items on it.
I heard it too. They went about theorizing...I popped my head in the cockpit and found that the primer knob was not fully in and locked. And guess what one checklist item is? "Primer locked". I pushed it in, locked it, and performed another runup for my buddy, and the engine ran flawlessly. A good lesson was learned by all. Checklists are there for a reason, as are all items on it.
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Yo bose
for someone who claims to spend all their time flying IFR across Europe you seem to be able to find plenty of time to get yourself into arguements about pointless topics on an insignificant website. havent you got anything better to do?
for someone who claims to spend all their time flying IFR across Europe you seem to be able to find plenty of time to get yourself into arguements about pointless topics on an insignificant website. havent you got anything better to do?
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Years ago (1983?) I was friendly with a company rep who complained that his Jet fuel was being drained by the locals from a 707 at Khartoum. It was flying cattle from Sudan to Saudi and later crashed. I often wondered if fuel exhaustion was a factor in that.
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Yo bose
for someone who claims to spend all their time flying IFR across Europe you seem to be able to find plenty of time to get yourself into arguements about pointless topics on an insignificant website. havent you got anything better to do?
for someone who claims to spend all their time flying IFR across Europe you seem to be able to find plenty of time to get yourself into arguements about pointless topics on an insignificant website. havent you got anything better to do?
What did have you done in the last 4 days? I flew a Chipmunk to Lille and back via Calais to display it. VFR with only a radio. I flew IFR to Bournemouth to collect a passenger with an ILS in drizzle, rain and low cloud.
I did a license renewal yesterday for someone, fixed the runway lights and this morning I am on the phone booking a slot at Schiphol for this evening. Friday I leave for Tangier, routing Guernsey, Biaritz, Madrid, Jerez, Tangier......
But I always like to find time to fight with desk jockeys......
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for someone who claims to spend all their time flying IFR across Europe you seem to be able to find plenty of time to get yourself into arguements about pointless topics on an insignificant website. havent you got anything better to do?
Just to add, (and whilst I am sure this was intended to be provocative),
one might well add why are you wasting your time on this insignificant website,
and some of us actually think by discussing these topics it might just do some good.
I for one have learnt a huge amount from reading Prune, which has without doubt made the way I fly safer and more enjoyable.
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So how many of you were given check lists with the reasoning behind it during training?
FWIW, I always use a checklist on my preflight, even on a/c I fly regularly and know inside out. Going through the items of course is very quick these days, but it's too easy to get distracted and miss something.
I also always - and by this I mean always, even after having filled up and then done a short flight - how do you know that a filler cap hasn't come loose and the fuel siphoned out ?? Impossible to know on a high-wing - check the fuel before start-up.
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Likewise I had to make do with explanations of some of the items from instructors.
But I found out for myself why "Fuel - both" is on the list three times - having distracted myself by refuelling, doing some of the checks before refuelling and some after, it was only on the third time that I caught it.
(OK, so I had enough fuel in one tank for the entire trip, and if I'd done the FREDA checks properly that included another "Fuel - both" check, but even so.)
But I found out for myself why "Fuel - both" is on the list three times - having distracted myself by refuelling, doing some of the checks before refuelling and some after, it was only on the third time that I caught it.
(OK, so I had enough fuel in one tank for the entire trip, and if I'd done the FREDA checks properly that included another "Fuel - both" check, but even so.)