Stansted need to do better
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Stansted need to do better
There have been moans on here and elsewhere about zone transits.
Personally, I find the willingness of pretty much all “zone controllers” to give transits very good, with one notable exception.
Stansted are hopeless.
I find it is very rare for them to give a transit.
I also feel on occasions they don’t set out to be helpful.
For example, XXXXX request zone transit just out of Cambridge.
Now to me that is a clear indication that if you do nothing else at least give the pilot a squawk so you can have him identified and see if traffic flow will permit.
But no, it is the usual remain outside etc., I will come back to you. Of course it would take exactly the same amount of time to utter the same words adding squawk xxxx.
By the edge of the zone a squawk is eventually given, indication that a transit is likely to be approved. Half way round the zone the transit is still not given or, if as is sometimes the case, it is, it is far to late and a complete waste of time. Cynically, is this just so that the statistics show the transit was approved a bit like having your eyes tested in casualty as soon as you arrive!
Now I always ask for a transit as early as I possibly can whatever I am flying but often because I am also aware I am moving over the ground a lot faster than most light traffic.
So I have got that moan off my chest. Maybe I have just been unlucky. Yes, I know I could file on their refusals, and yes I really do understand at times they are busy, but, and this is really my point, if they don’t identify the traffic as early as possible, there is going to be no chance to fit you in, and if it was simply always their intentions to not give the transit, for goodness sake own up straight away because all the sooner we can adjust our heading rather than having to dither around wondering whether or not it will be given.
Finally, and for the avoidance of doubt (and without wishing to sound too conceited) I know my RT is up to scratch, infact I was wondering recently about the standard of the RT of some of the CAT being vectored into Stansted which added to the delays and which seems to have detiorated in recent times.
Come on chaps - you need to do better.
Have others found the same, or am I the exception?
Personally, I find the willingness of pretty much all “zone controllers” to give transits very good, with one notable exception.
Stansted are hopeless.
I find it is very rare for them to give a transit.
I also feel on occasions they don’t set out to be helpful.
For example, XXXXX request zone transit just out of Cambridge.
Now to me that is a clear indication that if you do nothing else at least give the pilot a squawk so you can have him identified and see if traffic flow will permit.
But no, it is the usual remain outside etc., I will come back to you. Of course it would take exactly the same amount of time to utter the same words adding squawk xxxx.
By the edge of the zone a squawk is eventually given, indication that a transit is likely to be approved. Half way round the zone the transit is still not given or, if as is sometimes the case, it is, it is far to late and a complete waste of time. Cynically, is this just so that the statistics show the transit was approved a bit like having your eyes tested in casualty as soon as you arrive!
Now I always ask for a transit as early as I possibly can whatever I am flying but often because I am also aware I am moving over the ground a lot faster than most light traffic.
So I have got that moan off my chest. Maybe I have just been unlucky. Yes, I know I could file on their refusals, and yes I really do understand at times they are busy, but, and this is really my point, if they don’t identify the traffic as early as possible, there is going to be no chance to fit you in, and if it was simply always their intentions to not give the transit, for goodness sake own up straight away because all the sooner we can adjust our heading rather than having to dither around wondering whether or not it will be given.
Finally, and for the avoidance of doubt (and without wishing to sound too conceited) I know my RT is up to scratch, infact I was wondering recently about the standard of the RT of some of the CAT being vectored into Stansted which added to the delays and which seems to have detiorated in recent times.
Come on chaps - you need to do better.
Have others found the same, or am I the exception?
The next Farnborough LARS sector to open will cover the areas around ie north and south of Luton and Stansted CTRs; sometime early next year I'm afraid though.
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I'm interested in people's experiences with Stanstead. I'm based at Stapleford, and hoping to do my first jaunt to Duxford in a few weeks, and have never talked to, let alone transited, Class D airspace. I guess I'd better plot a route around....
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Tractor boy
reading your last about visiting Duxford i am as well and some of the other guys gave me some tips have a look at thread Thinking of flying to duxford? it may help
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Yes, I have to agree about Stansted.
Compare and contrast with their "neighbours" at Luton, who I have found to be unfailingly helpful (I have never been refused a transit in the (literally) dozens of times I've made that trip).
Mind you, Stansted are not alone, as we all know : and on the plus side, there are plenty of helpful zones out there, too ...
FF
Compare and contrast with their "neighbours" at Luton, who I have found to be unfailingly helpful (I have never been refused a transit in the (literally) dozens of times I've made that trip).
Mind you, Stansted are not alone, as we all know : and on the plus side, there are plenty of helpful zones out there, too ...
FF
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Goodness gracious, I must have been lucky having been offered a zone transit without having requested one.
I was squawking 0013 and listening out on Essex Radar when I thought they wanted to talk to me – except they didn’t, they were after somebody else flying in the same area. Having cleared that one up they asked would I like a zone transit. Thank you, Stansted!
I was squawking 0013 and listening out on Essex Radar when I thought they wanted to talk to me – except they didn’t, they were after somebody else flying in the same area. Having cleared that one up they asked would I like a zone transit. Thank you, Stansted!
Chances of zone transit if you call them 'Stansted Approach' on initial call: Zero, zilch, nada.
Chances of zone transit if you call them 'Essex Radar' on initial call (and sound like you know what you're doing and they don't have 20-odd 737s stacked up, waiting to come in): Reasonable.
Chances of zone transit if you call them 'Essex Radar' on initial call (and sound like you know what you're doing and they don't have 20-odd 737s stacked up, waiting to come in): Reasonable.
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Chances of zone transit if you call them 'Stansted Approach' on initial call: Zero, zilch, nada.
Next time they pee me off I am going to tell them that I am qsy ing to Stansted approach to see if I have any better luck with them
.Mind you they rarely seem to be able to read back my aircraft type correctly so whats in a name eh.
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You may have a point on the squawk, although I'd say that's a 50:50 thing, if you say squawking 7000 on initial call they'll usually give you a squawk there and then, otherwise I've not really had an issue with a zone transit, almost always granted, except when they are so busy you can't get a word in when common sense tells you it's not worth asking anyhow.
In fact the other day they let us fly a few orbits for a friend to get some photos of his house almost under their extended centreline inside the zone during a fairly busy period, you can't get much more obliging than that?
In fact the other day they let us fly a few orbits for a friend to get some photos of his house almost under their extended centreline inside the zone during a fairly busy period, you can't get much more obliging than that?
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Managed it on Saturday, no great problems (Southend to Duxford). Called Essex nice and early. One orbit just east of the field and then slotted between an Easy and a Ryanair.
Mind you - I get transits of Birmingham too
Mind you - I get transits of Birmingham too
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Fuji and SAS display an alarming ignorance of what actually goes on within the Stansted zone and surrounding airspace, most of the time it's busier than you can ever imagine and at busy times it's manic.
All I can say to those who are prepared to criticise without any idea of what the real picture is, is to arrange to spend a few hours with ATC at Stansted or at Swanwick with Essex radar, and you'll realise what complete and rubbish you have been spouting.
All I can say to those who are prepared to criticise without any idea of what the real picture is, is to arrange to spend a few hours with ATC at Stansted or at Swanwick with Essex radar, and you'll realise what complete and rubbish you have been spouting.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
arrange to spend a few hours at Swanwick with Essex radar
Weren't they at West Drayton until quite recently? I was one of the lucky ones to have a visit to WD (thanks BRL!), and I seem to recall seeing Essex Radar there. Of course my memory could be at fault...
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niknak, you've got to be kidding me. I have been in and out of Stansted hundreds of times as crew and taught next to it for 3 years, so I do know a little bit about the traffic there.
Essex are busy, of that there is no doubt, in fact at times it's mayhem, but from the sound of it they seem to be a bit more GA friendly than they used to be.
From a commercial point of view, they do a superb job, but from a GA point, I feel they have been lacking. They may not care and that is fine, but at no time have I ever been allowed a non IFR transit, not even to simply cut a corner here and there.
Even at quiet times I have alway been refused transits, or even a FIS when operating close to their boundary. I have been on many visits to ATC units around the country and I am full of respect for all of them, but I have seen and heard what could easily be perceived as a lack of interest toward GA hilst flying.
The airspace around Stansted out towards Clacton is some of the busiest on this planet, but they are the only unit I have ever used that don't seem to want to know when you are near them. Try getting a FIS or RIS outside of the zone..... Aye right! Luton-no trouble, Bournemouth-no trouble, Glasgow-no trouble, Edinburgh-no trouble, Manchester- no trouble, Birmingham-no trouble etc. etc. Even Norwich seem to have time to talk to you!
Essex are busy, of that there is no doubt, in fact at times it's mayhem, but from the sound of it they seem to be a bit more GA friendly than they used to be.
From a commercial point of view, they do a superb job, but from a GA point, I feel they have been lacking. They may not care and that is fine, but at no time have I ever been allowed a non IFR transit, not even to simply cut a corner here and there.
Even at quiet times I have alway been refused transits, or even a FIS when operating close to their boundary. I have been on many visits to ATC units around the country and I am full of respect for all of them, but I have seen and heard what could easily be perceived as a lack of interest toward GA hilst flying.
The airspace around Stansted out towards Clacton is some of the busiest on this planet, but they are the only unit I have ever used that don't seem to want to know when you are near them. Try getting a FIS or RIS outside of the zone..... Aye right! Luton-no trouble, Bournemouth-no trouble, Glasgow-no trouble, Edinburgh-no trouble, Manchester- no trouble, Birmingham-no trouble etc. etc. Even Norwich seem to have time to talk to you!
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Fuji and SAS display an alarming ignorance of what actually goes on within the Stansted zone and surrounding airspace, most of the time it's busier than you can ever imagine and at busy times it's manic.
Yeah, I know go and spend a few hours with .. .. ..
How do you know I haven’t?
Do you not gain some idea from my post that I do a reasonable number of zone transits and have some perception of when a zone is busy and when it is not?
Did you note the careful explanation I gave, and the point made that identifying the aircraft half way around the zone is useless.
To be blunt, if a transit might be possible, identify the aircraft as soon as possible and if you are not going to give a transit tell the pilot so - as soon as possible. It is not that hard really.
Strange thing - it makes your job easier and makes my job easier.
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I'm training on Essex at the moment and I'm afraid to say zone transits are at the bottom of my list ... nothing personal but when I'm trying to get Luton traffic through the LOREL stack I haven't got the capacity (at the moment 
) to deal with you guys ... saying that, I do Luton to ... your chances for a transit are much higher there ... although this doesn't mean you all need to come pestering me now whilst I'm on Luton
) to deal with you guys ... saying that, I do Luton to ... your chances for a transit are much higher there ... although this doesn't mean you all need to come pestering me now whilst I'm on Luton
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Masked - a question (1 ATCO to another)?
When I got my transit I was outside at 2000ft, dropped down to 1500ft just before Great Dunmow, orbited abeam the field, then crossed in between two on the approach at about 2 miles. During this the frequency changes were Essex Radar - Stansted Director - Stansted Tower - Stansted Approach. Bear in mind this wasn't some slow 80-90Kt puddle jumper, but something that cruises at 150Kts
Keep it simple - why not straight over the landing threshold at 2000ft? No holding, no change in level, transit's out of your hair a lot quicker. I do it all the time - it saves a lot of messing around.
When I got my transit I was outside at 2000ft, dropped down to 1500ft just before Great Dunmow, orbited abeam the field, then crossed in between two on the approach at about 2 miles. During this the frequency changes were Essex Radar - Stansted Director - Stansted Tower - Stansted Approach. Bear in mind this wasn't some slow 80-90Kt puddle jumper, but something that cruises at 150Kts
Keep it simple - why not straight over the landing threshold at 2000ft? No holding, no change in level, transit's out of your hair a lot quicker. I do it all the time - it saves a lot of messing around.