N reg , sorry but I am new here
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N reg , sorry but I am new here
Sorry if this is going over old ground but I am trying to find out why I would want to fly N reg and what the issue of importing aircraft and not putting them on the uk register is about.
I am looking at a Chieftain from the states because I cant find any good ones over here compared the the price I would pay abroad. Why would I not just put it on the uk Register?
Again sorry if this is a daft question but like I said I am new to this
I am looking at a Chieftain from the states because I cant find any good ones over here compared the the price I would pay abroad. Why would I not just put it on the uk Register?
Again sorry if this is a daft question but like I said I am new to this
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The main reason for not putting it on the G-reg is that you have an FAA PPL on which you want to fly it, not a JAA PPL. And this mostly happens with people who want to have an IR, and don't want to go through the incredible classroom/theory requirements of a JAA IR. So they get an FAA PPL/IR and fly an N-reg in Europe.
Another reason is that the FAA is more lenient to modifications of aircraft than the JAA/CAA. Certain modifications are easily recognised/accepted by the FAA, but require some serious amount of certification work (with the associated cost) before they're acceptable to the CAA. And without that, no CofA and no flying. Even a replacement (brighter) landing light will cost several hundreds of pounds in paperwork, so I heard.
Other than that, there's no reason that I know of. In fact, N-regs are more limited than G-regs, for instance because you can't, for all practical purposes, hire them out to schools or clubs, and you might have to jump through some hoops to get customs and the FAA happy. Also, N-regs are supposed to be owned by US citizens, corporations or trusts, so you will have to set up a trust in the US to own your aircraft.
IO540 has done this and can tell you a lot about the process.
Another reason is that the FAA is more lenient to modifications of aircraft than the JAA/CAA. Certain modifications are easily recognised/accepted by the FAA, but require some serious amount of certification work (with the associated cost) before they're acceptable to the CAA. And without that, no CofA and no flying. Even a replacement (brighter) landing light will cost several hundreds of pounds in paperwork, so I heard.
Other than that, there's no reason that I know of. In fact, N-regs are more limited than G-regs, for instance because you can't, for all practical purposes, hire them out to schools or clubs, and you might have to jump through some hoops to get customs and the FAA happy. Also, N-regs are supposed to be owned by US citizens, corporations or trusts, so you will have to set up a trust in the US to own your aircraft.
IO540 has done this and can tell you a lot about the process.
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One other reason is simply the cost of transferring from one register to another. For my own aircraft, which is pretty much exactly as it came from the factory with no mods of any significance, the estimated cost of transfer from the N to G registers was £7,000 if done at the same time as the annual. No physical changes would be needed, so that would be just inspection, paperwork and painting the new reg on the side.
Of course, once I come to sell it, it's also advantageous to still be on the N-reg. If I transferred to the G, there's a good chance it would cost another £7k to re-register it to the registry of wherever it's going, so a round-trip cost of £14k for nothing. On the N-reg it can either be sold back to the States or pretty much anywhere in Europe or the UK.
Of course, once I come to sell it, it's also advantageous to still be on the N-reg. If I transferred to the G, there's a good chance it would cost another £7k to re-register it to the registry of wherever it's going, so a round-trip cost of £14k for nothing. On the N-reg it can either be sold back to the States or pretty much anywhere in Europe or the UK.
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To add/clarify to previous comments
You can read tons of back threads on this. But quick summary of reasons to be N-reg
1 - The aircraft may have modifications/equipment that are not approved in the UK or the cost of change may be excessive.
2 - Modifications to be on the G-reg may be expensive to remove hence reducing its resale area to Europe (excluding the US market may reduce resale value/speed)
3 - If you don't have a JAR IR, it is less time consuming and requires no mandatory ground study programme to get an FAA-IR (slight simplification - FAA/IR is good in N but not G)
4 - On N aircraft Service Bulletins are not mandatory but they are on the G-Reg. Many of the SBs are sensible but some are unnecessary and some actually increase the risk of problems.
Finally, there is simply the cost of changing. This needs to be set against the ongoing cost of the Trust (unless you are a US citizen).
You can read tons of back threads on this. But quick summary of reasons to be N-reg
1 - The aircraft may have modifications/equipment that are not approved in the UK or the cost of change may be excessive.
2 - Modifications to be on the G-reg may be expensive to remove hence reducing its resale area to Europe (excluding the US market may reduce resale value/speed)
3 - If you don't have a JAR IR, it is less time consuming and requires no mandatory ground study programme to get an FAA-IR (slight simplification - FAA/IR is good in N but not G)
4 - On N aircraft Service Bulletins are not mandatory but they are on the G-Reg. Many of the SBs are sensible but some are unnecessary and some actually increase the risk of problems.
Finally, there is simply the cost of changing. This needs to be set against the ongoing cost of the Trust (unless you are a US citizen).
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n-reg or not
the other aspect is risk of being forced to re-register with the costs mentioned above.
The DfT held their consultation last year which was a pointless exercise and poorly disguised attempt at removing UK based N-reg aircraft from UK airspace.
It simply highlighted their inability to prove any significant benefit and the numerous objections pointing out the considerable disadvantages as well as being unable to segregate N-reg aircraft from other states including other EU countries.
EASA may decide to have a go at the same subject and if they do it will no doubt be more effectively targetted at non EU aircraft and cover EU land as a whole giving little option to do anything else but comply or leave I suppose.
The DfT held their consultation last year which was a pointless exercise and poorly disguised attempt at removing UK based N-reg aircraft from UK airspace.
It simply highlighted their inability to prove any significant benefit and the numerous objections pointing out the considerable disadvantages as well as being unable to segregate N-reg aircraft from other states including other EU countries.
EASA may decide to have a go at the same subject and if they do it will no doubt be more effectively targetted at non EU aircraft and cover EU land as a whole giving little option to do anything else but comply or leave I suppose.
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N REG
Thanks everyone who wrote or pm'd me It was certainly an eye opener and saving VAT and import costs etc and dealing with escrow to mention but a few of the pointers raised. Realy glad I came here and keep being surprised how friendly and helpful you guys are...Bit better than the Landrover Forum !!!!
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Hi,
I am thinking of putting our Arrow on the N reg and have been quoted approx figure of £2000 for the DAR and FAA engineer, are there any other costs i should consider? Trust is already sorted.
Thanks in advance.
rudds
I am thinking of putting our Arrow on the N reg and have been quoted approx figure of £2000 for the DAR and FAA engineer, are there any other costs i should consider? Trust is already sorted.
Thanks in advance.
rudds
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Some more info. on the subject:
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/faa-nreg/nreg.html
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/faa-nreg/nreg.html
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Land rovers
try lro.com if you want to talk to friendly land rover folk. (Well one of mine is N-reg and so it's kind of on topic lol)
Last edited by On the Spot; 6th Sep 2007 at 08:19. Reason: spelling
