Steve Fossett missing - Final NTSB Report
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Here is the latest, somewhat novel attempt at search assistance. AVweb is asking people with time on their hands to search fresh images from Space, courtesy of DigitalGlobe (image suppliers to Google Earth), and via Amazon Mechanical Turk .. 
Amazon Mechanical Turk is a web service .. in essence, computers asking people to help, by conducting pixel by pixel search of the fresh images from Space, then compiling the results.
It is apparently hoped, that a sizeable number of human eyes, poring over fresh images from DigitalGlobe, pixel by pixel, will produce something of value, as in possible wreckage location, that CAP has missed, or not covered.
AVweb request for assistance .. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._196093-1.html
Mechanical Turk .. http://www.techcrunch.com/2005/11/04...as-the-matrix/
Amazon Mechanical Turk is a web service .. in essence, computers asking people to help, by conducting pixel by pixel search of the fresh images from Space, then compiling the results.
It is apparently hoped, that a sizeable number of human eyes, poring over fresh images from DigitalGlobe, pixel by pixel, will produce something of value, as in possible wreckage location, that CAP has missed, or not covered.
AVweb request for assistance .. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._196093-1.html
Mechanical Turk .. http://www.techcrunch.com/2005/11/04...as-the-matrix/
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USAF Hill AFB has a special team working on radar data looking for fossetts plane.
so far nothing.
I say he is within 30 minutes flying time of his departure point and that he never got high enough for a radar hit.
whether he really was looking for a dry lake bed or just out to "bore holes in the sky" is not confirmed. ONe good friend of his says he simply wasn't looking for dry lake beds as is being reported in the press.
the question to you is: if you were out for a joyride would you go look at the few pretty things in the desert, or would you head out into the magnificent desolation?
if he crashed looking at a tree, he was probably near a small river which would provide water to survive. but his plane might be hidden by the trees.
if you were looking at the desert, no water, but perhaps out in the open.
a mountain pass is my best guess and of course that is the hardest place for others to find you imho (at least by air) less water...very dry in nevada this year 85 days since rain just a few weeks ago.
this is saturday and there may be many off roaders just cruising around and hopefully they might just get lucky.
so far nothing.
I say he is within 30 minutes flying time of his departure point and that he never got high enough for a radar hit.
whether he really was looking for a dry lake bed or just out to "bore holes in the sky" is not confirmed. ONe good friend of his says he simply wasn't looking for dry lake beds as is being reported in the press.
the question to you is: if you were out for a joyride would you go look at the few pretty things in the desert, or would you head out into the magnificent desolation?
if he crashed looking at a tree, he was probably near a small river which would provide water to survive. but his plane might be hidden by the trees.
if you were looking at the desert, no water, but perhaps out in the open.
a mountain pass is my best guess and of course that is the hardest place for others to find you imho (at least by air) less water...very dry in nevada this year 85 days since rain just a few weeks ago.
this is saturday and there may be many off roaders just cruising around and hopefully they might just get lucky.
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latest update suggest that he was NOT carrying any survival food or water
I just hope and pray for a miracle that Steve is found alive and well.
I find it incongruous in this day and age of GPS, radar, satellite imaging etc that an aircraft can be "missing" for so long. Have a/c gone missing in this area before? If Steve had filed a flight plan what difference would it have made? Isn't it possible also that they are looking completely in the wrong place?
I know these might seem naieve questions but my feeling is that this story is becoming more and more mysterious as the hours and days roll by.
I find it incongruous in this day and age of GPS, radar, satellite imaging etc that an aircraft can be "missing" for so long. Have a/c gone missing in this area before? If Steve had filed a flight plan what difference would it have made? Isn't it possible also that they are looking completely in the wrong place?
I know these might seem naieve questions but my feeling is that this story is becoming more and more mysterious as the hours and days roll by.
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have aircraft gone missing in this area before? YES
in fact, during the fossett search planes that have been missing for over 30 years are being found (6 so far).
unless there is secret air force radar involved, regular ATC radar is useless for the altitudes he was likely flying.
I realize the UK doesn't really have mountains...so unless you take a look, you don't have a clue...the US Miltary uses the area nearby to train some pilots for work in Afghanistan. some areas nearby are marked on the chart as "wilderness".
in fact, during the fossett search planes that have been missing for over 30 years are being found (6 so far).
unless there is secret air force radar involved, regular ATC radar is useless for the altitudes he was likely flying.
I realize the UK doesn't really have mountains...so unless you take a look, you don't have a clue...the US Miltary uses the area nearby to train some pilots for work in Afghanistan. some areas nearby are marked on the chart as "wilderness".
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Isn't it possible also that they are looking completely in the wrong place?
"The search area has now been expanded from 26,000 to 44,000 square kilometres, and 45 planes and helicopters are involved."
"Searchers looking for missing adventurer Steve Fossett have discovered half a dozen other plane crashes, but have found no substantial clues about the multi-millionaire's whereabouts."
Updated report:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories
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"Saturday marked the sixth day he has been lost in one of the most unforgiving regions in the continental United States. Authorities expanded the overall size of the search area from 10,000 square miles to 17,000, a region about twice the size of New Jersey.
In a stark illustration of the region's remoteness, searchers have discovered six old plane crashes that had not previously been identified since they began the intensive hunt for Fossett on Tuesday.
Crews are marking crash sites discovered during the Fossett search and will return later to examine them in detail. No human remains have been found, which is no surprise in a region where coyotes and mountain lions are prevalent."
I am somewhat amazed that the search has uncovered 6 previous unknown crash sites! The effort going into this search reminds me somewhat of the time that JFK, Jr. crashed into the ocean off of Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard. There were several US Navy ships involved in the recovery effort (and in that case, nobody was looking for survivors, just victims).
There is something a bit perverse that 6 other crash sites have been discovered... suspect some of those planes have been missing for years!
In a stark illustration of the region's remoteness, searchers have discovered six old plane crashes that had not previously been identified since they began the intensive hunt for Fossett on Tuesday.
Crews are marking crash sites discovered during the Fossett search and will return later to examine them in detail. No human remains have been found, which is no surprise in a region where coyotes and mountain lions are prevalent."
I am somewhat amazed that the search has uncovered 6 previous unknown crash sites! The effort going into this search reminds me somewhat of the time that JFK, Jr. crashed into the ocean off of Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard. There were several US Navy ships involved in the recovery effort (and in that case, nobody was looking for survivors, just victims).
There is something a bit perverse that 6 other crash sites have been discovered... suspect some of those planes have been missing for years!
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what the search area is like:
this article seems to say it all. think about the size of the state and how few people, how few survivable spots there are in the state...and I live here.
Fossett coverage reveals a lonely state, unlike any other
By SCOTT SONNER Associated Press Writer
News Fuze
Article Launched:09/08/2007 01:13:26 PM PDT
RENO, Nev.—This week's news reports about missing aviator Steve Fossett have been filled with references to the barren and empty landscape he was flying over when his plane disappeared.
But from outside Nevada, it's hard to fully appreciate just how expansive, how desolate the wide open spaces of the state can be.
Superimposed over a U.S. map, Nevada's 110,000 square miles would stretch from New York City, west to Pittsburgh and south to Myrtle Beach, S.C. Then remove nearly all the people.
While Nevada's population has been the fastest growing in the nation for most of the last three decades, it averaged just 18 people per square mile in 2000, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. That compares to a national average of 80 people per square mile and 1,134 in New Jersey, the nation's most densely populated state.
Even that doesn't tell the whole story. Some 2.3 million of Nevada's nearly 2.6 million residents live in just the two counties that include Las Vegas and Reno. Across the rest of Nevada, there are fewer than three people per square mile.
"There's just very, very few human beings out there," said Guy Rocha, Nevada's state archivist.
So much of the state is so desolate that the Web site of the Nevada Commission on Tourism urges visitors to carry plenty of water and gasoline when traveling to many of the destinations it lists. Cell phone coverage is spotty, and often nonexistent.
The area of northwest Nevada where the search for Fossett is concentrated is considered one of the state's most barren regions and has been relatively unchanged for more than a century.
"I don't think the general public watching on TV really has too much of an idea of just how rugged and remote this area is," Rocha said.
Outside Reno, Las Vegas and the capital, Carson City, the nation's seventh-largest state is a vast emptiness.
The severe landscape that marks the overwhelming majority of Nevada is far different from the traditional travel brochures that feature the beaming lights of the Las Vegas strip or the forested ski resorts ringing Lake Tahoe.
Miles of high desert are broken up by hundreds of mostly barren, craggy mountain ranges rising 8,000 to 11,000 feet from dry lake beds and seas of sagebrush. The state has 300 named mountain ranges—more than any other state in the nation—and few roads outside its main cities and towns.
"In Nevada, there is a lot of 'middle of nowhere,'" said Chris Healy, a spokesman for the Nevada Division of Wildlife, which issues licenses to hunt deer, elk, antelope, bighorn sheep and mountain lions.
Rural Nevada is dotted with gold and silver mines, many abandoned a century ago. Irrigation allows limited farming and livestock grazing in some of the valleys, mostly on territory administered by the state's largest landholder—the federal government.
One leg of the California Trail, used by 19th century pioneers coming overland in wagon trains, passes through the Fossett search area. It runs from a former Pony Express post into the dry wasteland that stretches to the flanks of the eastern Sierra Nevada.
Few immigrants, however, dared to brave the barren route. One party that made it through in 1853 threatened to lynch its leader because of the deprivations it endured along the way.
"The route was described as 'strewn with wreckage of prairie schooners (covered wagons), oxen yoke and bleached animal bones,'" reads one historical marker.
Today, the most traveled part of the region is on the eastern edge of the search area bordering Walker Lake, where Highway 95 connects Reno to Las Vegas some 450 miles south.
The quality of the view is in the eye of the beholder.
"The mountains are pretty. It's scenic," said Healy, the wildlife official.
John Sullivan wasn't prepared for the isolation when he first made the drive to Las Vegas after moving to Reno 20 years ago from his native San Francisco.
"Boring. Just so monotonous," Sullivan said. "It's just dirt, sand and a couple three or four small towns you've got to drive through."
On the bright side, he said the trip to Las Vegas goes faster than the mileage might suggest because it's easy to get away with exceeding the speed limit.
"I made it in 5 1/2 hours once," he said.
Typically, the drive takes about eight hours.
Fossett coverage reveals a lonely state, unlike any other
By SCOTT SONNER Associated Press Writer
News Fuze
Article Launched:09/08/2007 01:13:26 PM PDT
RENO, Nev.—This week's news reports about missing aviator Steve Fossett have been filled with references to the barren and empty landscape he was flying over when his plane disappeared.
But from outside Nevada, it's hard to fully appreciate just how expansive, how desolate the wide open spaces of the state can be.
Superimposed over a U.S. map, Nevada's 110,000 square miles would stretch from New York City, west to Pittsburgh and south to Myrtle Beach, S.C. Then remove nearly all the people.
While Nevada's population has been the fastest growing in the nation for most of the last three decades, it averaged just 18 people per square mile in 2000, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. That compares to a national average of 80 people per square mile and 1,134 in New Jersey, the nation's most densely populated state.
Even that doesn't tell the whole story. Some 2.3 million of Nevada's nearly 2.6 million residents live in just the two counties that include Las Vegas and Reno. Across the rest of Nevada, there are fewer than three people per square mile.
"There's just very, very few human beings out there," said Guy Rocha, Nevada's state archivist.
So much of the state is so desolate that the Web site of the Nevada Commission on Tourism urges visitors to carry plenty of water and gasoline when traveling to many of the destinations it lists. Cell phone coverage is spotty, and often nonexistent.
The area of northwest Nevada where the search for Fossett is concentrated is considered one of the state's most barren regions and has been relatively unchanged for more than a century.
"I don't think the general public watching on TV really has too much of an idea of just how rugged and remote this area is," Rocha said.
Outside Reno, Las Vegas and the capital, Carson City, the nation's seventh-largest state is a vast emptiness.
The severe landscape that marks the overwhelming majority of Nevada is far different from the traditional travel brochures that feature the beaming lights of the Las Vegas strip or the forested ski resorts ringing Lake Tahoe.
Miles of high desert are broken up by hundreds of mostly barren, craggy mountain ranges rising 8,000 to 11,000 feet from dry lake beds and seas of sagebrush. The state has 300 named mountain ranges—more than any other state in the nation—and few roads outside its main cities and towns.
"In Nevada, there is a lot of 'middle of nowhere,'" said Chris Healy, a spokesman for the Nevada Division of Wildlife, which issues licenses to hunt deer, elk, antelope, bighorn sheep and mountain lions.
Rural Nevada is dotted with gold and silver mines, many abandoned a century ago. Irrigation allows limited farming and livestock grazing in some of the valleys, mostly on territory administered by the state's largest landholder—the federal government.
One leg of the California Trail, used by 19th century pioneers coming overland in wagon trains, passes through the Fossett search area. It runs from a former Pony Express post into the dry wasteland that stretches to the flanks of the eastern Sierra Nevada.
Few immigrants, however, dared to brave the barren route. One party that made it through in 1853 threatened to lynch its leader because of the deprivations it endured along the way.
"The route was described as 'strewn with wreckage of prairie schooners (covered wagons), oxen yoke and bleached animal bones,'" reads one historical marker.
Today, the most traveled part of the region is on the eastern edge of the search area bordering Walker Lake, where Highway 95 connects Reno to Las Vegas some 450 miles south.
The quality of the view is in the eye of the beholder.
"The mountains are pretty. It's scenic," said Healy, the wildlife official.
John Sullivan wasn't prepared for the isolation when he first made the drive to Las Vegas after moving to Reno 20 years ago from his native San Francisco.
"Boring. Just so monotonous," Sullivan said. "It's just dirt, sand and a couple three or four small towns you've got to drive through."
On the bright side, he said the trip to Las Vegas goes faster than the mileage might suggest because it's easy to get away with exceeding the speed limit.
"I made it in 5 1/2 hours once," he said.
Typically, the drive takes about eight hours.
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Who is paying for this search?
I am somewhat amazed that the search has uncovered 6 previous unknown crash sites!
Ever see Fargo? Not every crash crew wants to be discovered.
But I have to admit I'm suprised.
20driver
Ever see Fargo? Not every crash crew wants to be discovered.
But I have to admit I'm suprised.
20driver
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If he would be still alive, and succeeded in finding water and food from maybe eating cactus or something else, believe me, he would be creating a large fire or burn his plane or something else so it would be seen on radar images...
I feel sad about this, we must understand he's gone.. RIP
I feel sad about this, we must understand he's gone.. RIP
I don't live in the area where the search is happening but have visited and flown over it several times. It's a frighteningly large and barren area with a whole bunch of features that could hide crash sites, especially for small aircraft, and the CAP definitely have a difficult job on their hands.
A question for anyone with a little more knowledge than I: I also found it rather remarkable that six "uncharted" (quoting CNN) crash sites have been discovered. Are these flights that the authorities knew went missing or are they real surprises, i.e., flights that no one had any idea about?
Maybe a little too early to ask that question, but am curious as to how many more mysteries this sad event might turn up.
A question for anyone with a little more knowledge than I: I also found it rather remarkable that six "uncharted" (quoting CNN) crash sites have been discovered. Are these flights that the authorities knew went missing or are they real surprises, i.e., flights that no one had any idea about?
Maybe a little too early to ask that question, but am curious as to how many more mysteries this sad event might turn up.
Last edited by Hokulea; 9th Sep 2007 at 07:29. Reason: clarification
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>> That would explain the lack of ELT signal.
Rescuers to probe lake as Fossett search enters fourth day
LOS ANGELES (AFP) — The search for adventurer Steve Fossett entered its fourth day on Wednesday, with rescuers preparing to probe a lake close to where the aviator's plane took off before it disappeared.
As aircraft took to the skies shortly after 7:00 am (1400 GMT), police said a search and rescue boat fitted with sonar equipment would be deployed on a lake near the Hilton Flying M Ranch, 80 miles (129 km) southeast of Reno, Nevada where Fossett was last seen.
"The new information is that they're going to put a boat onto the lake with sonar equipment that can detect large and fixed objects beneath the surface of the water," Nevada State police spokesman Chuck Allen told AFP.
While rescuers had no information to suggest that Fossett's light plane had crashed into Walker Lake, in Mineral County, Allen said officials wanted to take to the water "if only to rule it out."........
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...BssvRraEr_dPrQ
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Rescuers to probe lake as Fossett search enters fourth day
LOS ANGELES (AFP) — The search for adventurer Steve Fossett entered its fourth day on Wednesday, with rescuers preparing to probe a lake close to where the aviator's plane took off before it disappeared.
As aircraft took to the skies shortly after 7:00 am (1400 GMT), police said a search and rescue boat fitted with sonar equipment would be deployed on a lake near the Hilton Flying M Ranch, 80 miles (129 km) southeast of Reno, Nevada where Fossett was last seen.
"The new information is that they're going to put a boat onto the lake with sonar equipment that can detect large and fixed objects beneath the surface of the water," Nevada State police spokesman Chuck Allen told AFP.
While rescuers had no information to suggest that Fossett's light plane had crashed into Walker Lake, in Mineral County, Allen said officials wanted to take to the water "if only to rule it out."........
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...BssvRraEr_dPrQ
.
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Help find Steve Fosset from your home computer!!!
http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?g...60&kw=storyUse the above link, to search using GOOGLE EARTH to assist in finding Steve Fossett.A few tip and tricks from AVweb editor Jennifer Whitley, who's been helping with the online search:Read and follow the instructions on the Fossett Mechanical Turk home page carefully. It ain't rocket science -- if you know your way around a computer, you can help. For better detail, view the images in Google Earth.(Download and install this free application if you don't have it already.) Load the KML file provided on the Fossett Mechanical Turk home page to ensure you're viewing current (not cached) satellite data. Then cut and paste the latitude/longitude of the area you're reviewing into Google Earth. Use Google Earth's pan, tilt and zoom features to uncover more detail on the area you're reviewing. If in doubt, be conservative and mark the image for review. It will be passed along to search-and-rescue specialists for further analysis.
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I spent around 2 hours yesterday looking at some 200 sat images.
All the terrain I was given was very difficult. All mountains, 500ft cliffs, trees, rock and and ravines. Google earth had some photographs and in that area - landing on a lake or perhaps a rock strewn river bed looked about the best there was. Hope he's not in that area.
Edit: link deleted as it was wrong.
All the terrain I was given was very difficult. All mountains, 500ft cliffs, trees, rock and and ravines. Google earth had some photographs and in that area - landing on a lake or perhaps a rock strewn river bed looked about the best there was. Hope he's not in that area.
Edit: link deleted as it was wrong.
One sobering thought that I had when looking at the images of Nevada was the similarity with images of the Pakistan border where they have been looking for Osama Bin Ladin. Admittedly the latter is not trying to be found, but look at the resources that the allies have been expending to look for him, still to no avail.
I am afraid there is little hope of finding him.
I am afraid there is little hope of finding him.