Pitts training?
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Pete, from your thoughts about solo in an S2 for a while before an S1, does that imply the S1 is trickier than the S2?
And can anyone give guidance on landing distances, i.e. a reasonable minimum strip length for basing one at?
And can anyone give guidance on landing distances, i.e. a reasonable minimum strip length for basing one at?
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With equal time in both: the S2 is about 20% easier to land on a bad day than the S1 - from the back! On a good day with wind down the slot there is not much in it.
The S2 from the front is as close as you will get to simulation for the S1. The S1 is marginally easier than the S2 from the front.
Can you see where this is going? I mean the above comments, not the flare to touch-down phase!
After 6 hrs with Budd landing at a Łuck-off long/wide American strip, I had no problems putting my own S1S down on the shorter r/way at Leicester on my second landing. It wasn't a pretty landing but it was safe and didn't endanger me or the machine that I'd built.
Having said that, it is very rare these days when I need more than 300yds to put it down and stop it. That's 300 from the threshold. The very fact that more is available can be very useful. Take-off in the S1S - routinely airborne within 150yds.
The "avoid-bit" on landing is coming down the centreline unless you are at landing somewhere big - you just lose all clues, includingthe r/way! The most dangerous wind is a quartering tailwind - ie, it's 90 degrees across but occasionally kicks in from behind you - the extra float and increased g/s are good indicators, but if you are tired - these are easy to miss. Tired, well it is pretty easy to knacker yourself after a session of high G change maneouvers at the beginning of the season! Neg 3 to Pos 6 is a whole 9 G change and is best avoided till G-fit.
S1S - final at 90, last look over the hedge, 85mph
S2A - final at 90, last look over the hedge, 85 - unless heavy then 90mph
S2B/C final at 100/110 last look 90 unless 2 up then about 95+mph
The hardest thing to teach/educate IMHO is when to leave it alone and when you need to do something. That just comes with time on type, I guess. As most Pitts sorties are around the 20 minute mark, you do get to log your fair share of landings!
Michael - if you want to buy one, give me a bell and I'll help.
And a last point, it is highly unlikely that you'll get to fly your chosen one until you actually pay the money! So someone who is known to the owner might just be allowed to fly it!
Hope this helps
Stik
The S2 from the front is as close as you will get to simulation for the S1. The S1 is marginally easier than the S2 from the front.
Can you see where this is going? I mean the above comments, not the flare to touch-down phase!
After 6 hrs with Budd landing at a Łuck-off long/wide American strip, I had no problems putting my own S1S down on the shorter r/way at Leicester on my second landing. It wasn't a pretty landing but it was safe and didn't endanger me or the machine that I'd built.
Having said that, it is very rare these days when I need more than 300yds to put it down and stop it. That's 300 from the threshold. The very fact that more is available can be very useful. Take-off in the S1S - routinely airborne within 150yds.
The "avoid-bit" on landing is coming down the centreline unless you are at landing somewhere big - you just lose all clues, includingthe r/way! The most dangerous wind is a quartering tailwind - ie, it's 90 degrees across but occasionally kicks in from behind you - the extra float and increased g/s are good indicators, but if you are tired - these are easy to miss. Tired, well it is pretty easy to knacker yourself after a session of high G change maneouvers at the beginning of the season! Neg 3 to Pos 6 is a whole 9 G change and is best avoided till G-fit.
S1S - final at 90, last look over the hedge, 85mph
S2A - final at 90, last look over the hedge, 85 - unless heavy then 90mph
S2B/C final at 100/110 last look 90 unless 2 up then about 95+mph
The hardest thing to teach/educate IMHO is when to leave it alone and when you need to do something. That just comes with time on type, I guess. As most Pitts sorties are around the 20 minute mark, you do get to log your fair share of landings!
Michael - if you want to buy one, give me a bell and I'll help.
And a last point, it is highly unlikely that you'll get to fly your chosen one until you actually pay the money! So someone who is known to the owner might just be allowed to fly it!
Hope this helps
Stik
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Very helpful Stik, and as per your last point, I was wondering how that would work and thanks for the offer
Anyway trip to the USA for some concentrated training is the next step I think.
Anyway trip to the USA for some concentrated training is the next step I think.
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Michael
The S1 is trickier in some ways, easier in others.
for instance, S1 landings are shorter than S-2A and especially S-2B landings because of the extra inertia of the S-2.
e.g. at Leicester and White waltham - you can often get a S1 stoppped before the intersection.
what I meant was - you have to get experience in a fast taildragger rather than a docile one, and no-one is going to let you loose in their own S1 as Stik says. So building experience in various conditions in an S2 is a good idea.
You could do the bare minimum in an S2 an jumo into your shiny new S1 - but inevitably the next 10hours or so are going to be dangerous. There have been a number of accidents to show the truth of that.
also - you may not be able to get insurance for your new S1 these days until you've built some 2 seater hours
The S1 is trickier in some ways, easier in others.
for instance, S1 landings are shorter than S-2A and especially S-2B landings because of the extra inertia of the S-2.
e.g. at Leicester and White waltham - you can often get a S1 stoppped before the intersection.
what I meant was - you have to get experience in a fast taildragger rather than a docile one, and no-one is going to let you loose in their own S1 as Stik says. So building experience in various conditions in an S2 is a good idea.
You could do the bare minimum in an S2 an jumo into your shiny new S1 - but inevitably the next 10hours or so are going to be dangerous. There have been a number of accidents to show the truth of that.
also - you may not be able to get insurance for your new S1 these days until you've built some 2 seater hours
I don't agree. It's no more "seriously hard" than most aircraft.
Sure, landing any aircraft takes a bit of practice, and most of us remember the sheer terror of our first few dozen landings in a 172 or whatever. But the Pitts takes it to a whole new level. Even when landing a "normal" plane - including a taildragger - is second nature, it still takes a lot of practice to land the Pitts at all, never mind elegantly. I've landed an L-39 and a B-25 and found both of those amazingly easy to land. I would never say that about the Pitts. Every landing is a challenge. That's why I always terminate an acro session with at least three of them.
My Pitts instructor - 10,000+ hr USAF instructor pilot - asserts that the only plane that is harder to land than a Pitts is a U2. (He flew those for a while too). Most of us will never get to find out.
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Flying a Pitts
Well, one of the best ways to a Pitts, if you intend to own one that is, is to go to Sibson and have a few hours with Frank McClurg.
Frank is CFI there and trains pilots on G-WREN, probably one of the best known Pitts`s in the country. It`s an S2A which is probably one the best harmonised models in the family.
Frank`s affable and laidback style make it a pleasure to fly the Pitts. You will soon find out if you have "what it takes to fly one".
I have probably a couple of hundred Pitts landings and every one was different. Huge fun.
Frank is CFI there and trains pilots on G-WREN, probably one of the best known Pitts`s in the country. It`s an S2A which is probably one the best harmonised models in the family.
Frank`s affable and laidback style make it a pleasure to fly the Pitts. You will soon find out if you have "what it takes to fly one".
I have probably a couple of hundred Pitts landings and every one was different. Huge fun.
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n5296s - gotta say I disagree! I don't consider myself "Yeager II" but I find that even though the Pitts (S2B in my case) commands absolute attention for EVERY landing, it is not particularly "difficult". The Pitts seems to have a reputation for being "squirrelly", but I find it does EXACTLY what you tell it...if you make a whole heap of small control inputs then it obeys every command. The secret?? Get speed under control on finals, set the landing attitude accurately, hang on and it seems to work every time. You do need to keep on top of things as speed reduces, but again, don't over control...biggest secret is to keep flying the aircraft until it is tied down or in the hangar!!!
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Slackie, IMHO the two-holers (and the S2S) are easier to land, by which I mean tend to run straighter with all three wheels on the ground - and it is all very comparitive, than the single seaters. My landing is not over until I am safely outside the aircraft with a cup of tea or a beer in my hand.
The maingear to tailwheel couple on the single seater is significantly shorter than the two seaters.
The very first single seaters had an even shorter (3") fuselage than the 1C/D/E/S and from these the tree-rat reputation spawned.
Michael - depending on your weight/budget do not discount the C.
The D/E/S all have 4 ailerons as opposed to the 2 on the C and have a 100lb greater MAUW to boot. Not inconsequential if you are "average" size and want to take advantage of full tanks and remain in the CoG envelope!
The maingear to tailwheel couple on the single seater is significantly shorter than the two seaters.
The very first single seaters had an even shorter (3") fuselage than the 1C/D/E/S and from these the tree-rat reputation spawned.
Michael - depending on your weight/budget do not discount the C.
The D/E/S all have 4 ailerons as opposed to the 2 on the C and have a 100lb greater MAUW to boot. Not inconsequential if you are "average" size and want to take advantage of full tanks and remain in the CoG envelope!
Last edited by stiknruda; 3rd Sep 2007 at 12:05.
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Tailwheel
Not aspiring to the level of a Pitts (yet). But just a comment as I was at about the same level in hours as the author and fund that even a couple of hours practice landings in a basic tailwheel aircraft (converted Pacer with the rudder aileron linkage removed) had a noticeable beneficial effect on my landings thereafter.
I really had to fly the aircraft down to the deck and on the tarmac which has given my feet something to do ever since and in comparison to my normal fare of spam cans here it had been a somewhat more automatic process.
I think I would take it in stages as it is all a good investment.
I really had to fly the aircraft down to the deck and on the tarmac which has given my feet something to do ever since and in comparison to my normal fare of spam cans here it had been a somewhat more automatic process.
I think I would take it in stages as it is all a good investment.
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If you want to fly a Pitts, and have a holiday in a great part of the world at the same time, try Airborne Aviation just outside Sydney. At current Australian $ values the $428 hourly rate is about 183 GBP/hr. Sign a declaration that you're working towards a CPL and the GST comes off, bringing the price to about 165 GBP/hr. That's about 30% less than the Decathlon I flew at Kemble last week. They've also a Citabria if you want to do a couple of hours tailwheel time first in something less challenging than the Pitts.
Website is www.airborne-aviation.com.au or call +612 4655 7200.
Website is www.airborne-aviation.com.au or call +612 4655 7200.
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I had some dual (front seat) training in an S2B recently in preparation for the possibility of some S1 flying. I have a little over 150 hrs of tailwheel time mostly in a much lower performance but aerobatic biplane. The view was not as bad/limited as I had feared, but the steepness and speed of the approach was at first daunting. The speeds we used were bang on what `stik` suggested in his earlier post. Once the instructor had got me to pick a sensible point at which to start descending (closer than I thought!) and to start the descent at the correct speed it all came togther. I thought the `B` was less tail happy on the ground than the `A` in which I have a small amount of time - but this might just be because I have more general tailwheel time now than when I was in the `A`, also being in the front probably gives a different impression of what is happening at the back! I know all the S1`s are consideably more lively on the ground. As well as circuit work PFL`s etc there was also time for some gentle aeros and some spinning. What a lovely aeroplane, poweful light well harmonised controlls with feel and feedback through ones hands and feet. I loved it!
