Pilot shirts
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Midlands
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot shirts
Sensible post this (honest) - anyone know where I can get hold of some decent 100% cotton shirts, instead of the poxy cotton/poly combos that only seem to be available in shops, mail order etc?
Cheers,
HW
Cheers,
HW
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you'll struggle to find any that are 100% cotton I'm afraid. I find the Van Heusen 'Aviator' shirts very good and far better quality than anything else on the market.
I bought most of mine in the USA when I was there and struggled to find anyone selling them in the UK, so when I needed more I mail ordered them from the US. They are a thicker material and far longer lasting than anything else I've seen.
Good luck!
I bought most of mine in the USA when I was there and struggled to find anyone selling them in the UK, so when I needed more I mail ordered them from the US. They are a thicker material and far longer lasting than anything else I've seen.
Good luck!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Midlands
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks chaps...
SF737 - I'm in San Diego hour-building as I write this, so may pop into the local pilot shop to get some VH shirts - for info the VH 'Commander' seems to have a slightly higher cotton content.
HW
SF737 - I'm in San Diego hour-building as I write this, so may pop into the local pilot shop to get some VH shirts - for info the VH 'Commander' seems to have a slightly higher cotton content.
HW
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Switzerland, Singapore
Posts: 1,309
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry if I touch a slightly indiscreet matter but why do all men want cotton cloths? Have you ever seen any top athlet wearing cotton cloths? Women are used to wear these new fabrics and it hasn't hurt them.
I would loooove to throw all my cottons away and get some "Polyester", if they don't feel like plastic of course. It has to be microfibre (if it's made from cotton sometimes, then called Modal), and woven correctly, like coolmax. Btw the first microfibre was silk. Some very rare cottons are spinned so finely that they have similar properties, like the "Egyptian Cotton".
I try to wear as much as possible synthetics on my body, especially underwear. They let you sweat much less and if you do, the sweat goes quickly away from your skin. Most of the widely available cotton is so much contaminated with insecticides that you could never buy it if it would be food (That's why you shouldn't eat cotton
)
Dani
I would loooove to throw all my cottons away and get some "Polyester", if they don't feel like plastic of course. It has to be microfibre (if it's made from cotton sometimes, then called Modal), and woven correctly, like coolmax. Btw the first microfibre was silk. Some very rare cottons are spinned so finely that they have similar properties, like the "Egyptian Cotton".
I try to wear as much as possible synthetics on my body, especially underwear. They let you sweat much less and if you do, the sweat goes quickly away from your skin. Most of the widely available cotton is so much contaminated with insecticides that you could never buy it if it would be food (That's why you shouldn't eat cotton
)Dani
Dani, try applying a flame to non-cotton fabrics and see what happens. With cotton you get a chance to beat the flames out, with man made fibes (nomex excepted obviously) they will melt and eat into your skin. THe chances of ever being invloved in an aircraft fire are minimal I know but why take the chance. Escpecially as most cottons "breath" far better than man made fibres when you are sweating a cross wind landing in the summer time.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why do people worry about what clothes they wear in an aircraft in case it went on fire, but arren't concerned about what clothes they wear while in a car?
Is an airplane more likely to catch fire? If so why? Or is it just that we are more used to thinking about safety when it comes to aviation?
Is an airplane more likely to catch fire? If so why? Or is it just that we are more used to thinking about safety when it comes to aviation?
...in a car you can stop and run away from the flames. In an aircraft you have to sit there with the flames licking your shirt 
until you get it on the ground, then you can run away.
Unless you have a 'chute...
until you get it on the ground, then you can run away.Unless you have a 'chute...
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How often to aircraft catch fire enroute, where the flame makes it into the cabin and injures the occupents, but the fuel tanks don't catch fire, so the crew has enough time to land and evacuate? Any other senario, I can't see the clothing you are wearing making any difference.
In a ditching situation, cotton would surely be worse, as it would hold the moisture, and ensure you lost heat quicker from evaporation.
I'm not saying cotton wouldn't be better in a fire situation, but rather that the risk is so small as to be irrelevant, and no more serious that in a car accident. In a car accident, you are much more likely to be unable to exit the vehicle, at least in an aircaft, you stand some chance of being able to make a normal landing.
dp
In a ditching situation, cotton would surely be worse, as it would hold the moisture, and ensure you lost heat quicker from evaporation.
I'm not saying cotton wouldn't be better in a fire situation, but rather that the risk is so small as to be irrelevant, and no more serious that in a car accident. In a car accident, you are much more likely to be unable to exit the vehicle, at least in an aircaft, you stand some chance of being able to make a normal landing.
dp
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: London,England
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And why do they all seem to be tight around the neck and so baggy around the waste you have to tuck in about 3 yards of marterial into your trousers.
Anyone know of shirts cut for a slimmer fit?
Anyone know of shirts cut for a slimmer fit?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Switzerland, Singapore
Posts: 1,309
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LowNSlow,
you still have these old synthetic fabrics in mind, there where few cases where they were burning when exposed to flames. Most synthetics don't have these properties anymore, otherwise they would never pass the rigorous testing - well, if they come from China I don't know
Newer polymers rather melt than burning. And it has to be very close to the flame. If you are so close to an open fire, you have much other problems... - try to grab a Dräger Oxycrew for example!!
I also disagree that cotton "breathes" better in hot situation. Try to wear a Nike or Asics T-shirt on a hot sommer day and exchange it with a cotton one, you feel the difference. If these synthetics are worse, why would all marathon runner wear them? And not only them.
Dani
you still have these old synthetic fabrics in mind, there where few cases where they were burning when exposed to flames. Most synthetics don't have these properties anymore, otherwise they would never pass the rigorous testing - well, if they come from China I don't know
Newer polymers rather melt than burning. And it has to be very close to the flame. If you are so close to an open fire, you have much other problems... - try to grab a Dräger Oxycrew for example!!
I also disagree that cotton "breathes" better in hot situation. Try to wear a Nike or Asics T-shirt on a hot sommer day and exchange it with a cotton one, you feel the difference. If these synthetics are worse, why would all marathon runner wear them? And not only them.
Dani
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Swindon, Wilts,UK
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry if I touch a slightly indiscreet matter but why do all men want cotton cloths?
When I was a spanner bender it was no problem off home to Wales and stock up at the farmers shop. Now I drive a desk It's costing me a fortune and it also takes ages to find pure cotton shirts especially as until very recently you had to open the pack to find out what the material was.
I still cringe at the thought of the Nylon shirt I had at school in the blazing hot summer of 76 it was like having my neck sandpapered.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
You should ask survivors of ship fires about wearing man-made, melting clothing, next to the skin. Some still have the shirt on now, 25 years after the Falklands War.
The Royal Navy now only issues cotton clothing, but in the 70s it had become fixated with appearance, so had ordered polyester shirts that needed very little ironing.
Given the choice between cotton and man-made, why buy the item that you know will not perform well in a fire, whether in a plane or a car?
The Royal Navy now only issues cotton clothing, but in the 70s it had become fixated with appearance, so had ordered polyester shirts that needed very little ironing.
Given the choice between cotton and man-made, why buy the item that you know will not perform well in a fire, whether in a plane or a car?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Switzerland, Singapore
Posts: 1,309
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know why you all emphasize the fire problem above all, since it is very very unlikely that you as a pilot would be exposed to direct fire and survive it (if there are open flames in your cockpit, I think you have a bigger problem than your shirt!!).
But, ok, I understand your fear. This anxiety can be easily resolved: Synthetic fibres are much much less prone to taking fire.
1. Fibres like Nylon, Viscose aso. only melt where they are directly held into flames. All around it, nothing happens. If you do the same thing to a cloth of cotton, everything takes fire, your whole shirt burns.
2. What do professional fire fighter wear? Correct, synthetics. I agree these are special garnment and treated accordingly, but if you go layer through layer of their working suits, you see nothing but synthetic fibres.
3. Your friends in The Royal Navy are poor guys, I agree. I would go so far that with conventional cotton clothes, they wouldn't have survived. So you can choose what to wear after such a horrific fire accident: Your synthetics for a lifetime or your last shirt...
Remember that over a certain percentage of skin burnt, you just die.
4. Self-Incineration: Natural fabrics start to burn even without exposed to fire, just when it gets hot. OK, it must be already very hot. But if there is fire in your cockpit, they certainly could. Modern synthetic fabrics don't do that. I couldn't find out the self incinderation temperature of cotton, maybe somebody could help?
All in all I don't wear Polyester because of these issues (since I said before that the danger is rather low), but because of comfort issue. Do you want to know how many people in the world are allergic against cotton, or the toxics inside the cotton? Have you ever watched how they grow cottons in the US, in Russia, in Australia, everywhere? There isn't another plant we grow that is more exposed to chemicals than cotton. They treat it against bugs, other plants, bacterias, pests, insects... - they spray it to blossom, they spray it to let go the leaves, they spray it after the harvest! Do you want to know more? Because it's a natural fibre, part of this toxics will stay inside the fibre, no washing will help. Synthetic fibres on the other hand are pure polymere fadoms, they only consist of plastic, i.e. mineral oil. Nothing goes inside, nothing goes outside. That's why they are so resistent against dirt, sweat, smell ...
Dani
But, ok, I understand your fear. This anxiety can be easily resolved: Synthetic fibres are much much less prone to taking fire.
1. Fibres like Nylon, Viscose aso. only melt where they are directly held into flames. All around it, nothing happens. If you do the same thing to a cloth of cotton, everything takes fire, your whole shirt burns.
2. What do professional fire fighter wear? Correct, synthetics. I agree these are special garnment and treated accordingly, but if you go layer through layer of their working suits, you see nothing but synthetic fibres.
3. Your friends in The Royal Navy are poor guys, I agree. I would go so far that with conventional cotton clothes, they wouldn't have survived. So you can choose what to wear after such a horrific fire accident: Your synthetics for a lifetime or your last shirt...
Remember that over a certain percentage of skin burnt, you just die.
4. Self-Incineration: Natural fabrics start to burn even without exposed to fire, just when it gets hot. OK, it must be already very hot. But if there is fire in your cockpit, they certainly could. Modern synthetic fabrics don't do that. I couldn't find out the self incinderation temperature of cotton, maybe somebody could help?
All in all I don't wear Polyester because of these issues (since I said before that the danger is rather low), but because of comfort issue. Do you want to know how many people in the world are allergic against cotton, or the toxics inside the cotton? Have you ever watched how they grow cottons in the US, in Russia, in Australia, everywhere? There isn't another plant we grow that is more exposed to chemicals than cotton. They treat it against bugs, other plants, bacterias, pests, insects... - they spray it to blossom, they spray it to let go the leaves, they spray it after the harvest! Do you want to know more? Because it's a natural fibre, part of this toxics will stay inside the fibre, no washing will help. Synthetic fibres on the other hand are pure polymere fadoms, they only consist of plastic, i.e. mineral oil. Nothing goes inside, nothing goes outside. That's why they are so resistent against dirt, sweat, smell ...
Dani
Last edited by Dani; 29th Aug 2007 at 01:49.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South of France
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given the choice between cotton and man-made, why buy the item that you know will not perform well in a fire, whether in a plane or a car?
I'm being beaten-up on another forum regarding safety at the moment so I might as well go the whole hog....
I guess there is a "pure" form of safety awareness which we all deal with in our day to day lives in the home etc There is then "applied" safety: don't smoke in petrol stations, wear a seat belt and so on. Then there is "application" safety:such as if you are a climber, parachutist, racing driver etc, all dangerous sports which have safety equipment that lowers some of the risk.
Private flying is difficult. In spam cans, we don't tend to wear helmets,nor do we tend to wear Nomex flying suits. To be honest, I check the fire extinguisher and have some sort of plan about what I'd do if I had a fire in the air and had to get down quickly but I probably try not to think too hard about it. The reality is that if you've got a bit of smoke at 2000ft you have a chance. If flames are licking around your hands and feet or you've gone in hard from a stall well......cloud, new harp and "Nearer my God to Thee" springs to mind.
It's a risk game and we all conciously or otherwise take it because, despite the horror stories, that odds are stacked well in our favour even though we are putting wings on a 128litre avgas tank and taking it flying. So, I don't think I'll be buying my shirts on the basis of being in a fire.
However, in private flying, it's a matter of choice.....but will you require your passengers to wear them as well?
I'm being beaten-up on another forum regarding safety at the moment so I might as well go the whole hog....
I guess there is a "pure" form of safety awareness which we all deal with in our day to day lives in the home etc There is then "applied" safety: don't smoke in petrol stations, wear a seat belt and so on. Then there is "application" safety:such as if you are a climber, parachutist, racing driver etc, all dangerous sports which have safety equipment that lowers some of the risk.
Private flying is difficult. In spam cans, we don't tend to wear helmets,nor do we tend to wear Nomex flying suits. To be honest, I check the fire extinguisher and have some sort of plan about what I'd do if I had a fire in the air and had to get down quickly but I probably try not to think too hard about it. The reality is that if you've got a bit of smoke at 2000ft you have a chance. If flames are licking around your hands and feet or you've gone in hard from a stall well......cloud, new harp and "Nearer my God to Thee" springs to mind.
It's a risk game and we all conciously or otherwise take it because, despite the horror stories, that odds are stacked well in our favour even though we are putting wings on a 128litre avgas tank and taking it flying. So, I don't think I'll be buying my shirts on the basis of being in a fire.
However, in private flying, it's a matter of choice.....but will you require your passengers to wear them as well?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: london
Posts: 676
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many years ago I remember being cornered as an impressionable teenager by one of my mothers then freinds (a dyed-in-the-unbleached-wool, birkinstock wearing, bearded lesbian who was one of a bunch of ladies who appeared after my parents divorce in the early 70's) who drummed into me the three ummutable rules of life:
1. Never drink red wine less than three years old.
2. Never wear un-natural fibres next to your skin.
3. Never, ever, underestimate the power of women.
My mother dropped all her dodgy "wimmin" friends after an edition of 'Spare Rib' appeared with the headline "how to make your own tampons".
I have stuck religiously to 2 out of the three life rules.
1. Never drink red wine less than three years old.
2. Never wear un-natural fibres next to your skin.
3. Never, ever, underestimate the power of women.
My mother dropped all her dodgy "wimmin" friends after an edition of 'Spare Rib' appeared with the headline "how to make your own tampons".
I have stuck religiously to 2 out of the three life rules.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
3. Your friends in The Royal Navy are poor guys, I agree. I would go so far that with conventional cotton clothes, they wouldn't have survived. So you can choose what to wear after such a horrific fire accident: Your synthetics for a lifetime or your last shirt...
Remember that over a certain percentage of skin burnt, you just die.
Remember that over a certain percentage of skin burnt, you just die.
Anyone heard of the recent aerobatic SU-31 crash in Virginia?
Sergei awoke in his crashed inverted Sukhoi, unable to get out.
He had to wait until the canopy began to melt before he could extract himself.
Yes, he got burnt. I don't yet know what he was wearing.
Gloves, Helmet, Nomex - not suitable for general GA flying, but it can never hurt in aerobatics and warbirds etc. Synthetics? Leave them for the nightclub.
Sergei awoke in his crashed inverted Sukhoi, unable to get out.
He had to wait until the canopy began to melt before he could extract himself.
Yes, he got burnt. I don't yet know what he was wearing.
Gloves, Helmet, Nomex - not suitable for general GA flying, but it can never hurt in aerobatics and warbirds etc. Synthetics? Leave them for the nightclub.