Garmin 496
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Northumberland UK
Garmin 496
I believe that in the US the 496 can display uploads in real time of weather and traffic. I have never heard of this capability being proposed for UK. Anuone know if this is to come and if not why not? Assuming it is current info it sounds nice to have . Just been reading the Loop report on integrating Zaon traffic alert with the 496 which set me off wondering.
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Oxford
It relies on the XM satellite radio service. As far as I know there are no proposals for a satellite radio service here, because of our geographically denser population: you can easily cover 95% of the UK with not that many transmitters. We've gone for DAB instead.
In the US there are at least two competing satellite radio systems using geostationary satellites (XM and Sirius) so the technology is there to be 'leveraged', as they say. You can cover the entire US cheaper using satellites than thousands of ground transmitters.
So, I very much doubt it, unless Galileo can include that sort of info, and if it does, it won't come cheap...
Tim
In the US there are at least two competing satellite radio systems using geostationary satellites (XM and Sirius) so the technology is there to be 'leveraged', as they say. You can cover the entire US cheaper using satellites than thousands of ground transmitters.
So, I very much doubt it, unless Galileo can include that sort of info, and if it does, it won't come cheap...
Tim
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
There is zero chance of getting this in Europe, at a reasonable cost like in the USA.
The European GA scene is far too small to make it worth anybody's while.
Well, almost.
There is a way to get data into the cockpit: the satellite phone system. This is used by MT to deliver weather radar into the cockpit but the entry cost is about £5000. Their system actually uses an off the shelf sat phone and you have to buy their "box" which is some kind of custom built tablet computer. They pay loads of money to some consortium (probably Opera) which sells weather radar data. If you don't mind the price, and the rather tacky installation, you could have this now.
It's a shame it has happened this way because much of the radar data is free e.g. Meteox and it would be easy to pick this up with an airborne system. Unfortunately for tactical avoidance one needs an up to date feed with a much shorter delay than the ~ 30 mins on the free feeds, and this is commercially closely held.
That is the ultimate problem in Europe - everybody wants to charge for everything even if the data is produced by tax-funded public bodies.
As for traffic data, this will never happen. GA is too small. You can buy a TCAS system for ~ £10,000, installed. I would get one if I could find an avionics shop I could trust to not make a mess.
The European GA scene is far too small to make it worth anybody's while.
Well, almost.
There is a way to get data into the cockpit: the satellite phone system. This is used by MT to deliver weather radar into the cockpit but the entry cost is about £5000. Their system actually uses an off the shelf sat phone and you have to buy their "box" which is some kind of custom built tablet computer. They pay loads of money to some consortium (probably Opera) which sells weather radar data. If you don't mind the price, and the rather tacky installation, you could have this now.
It's a shame it has happened this way because much of the radar data is free e.g. Meteox and it would be easy to pick this up with an airborne system. Unfortunately for tactical avoidance one needs an up to date feed with a much shorter delay than the ~ 30 mins on the free feeds, and this is commercially closely held.
That is the ultimate problem in Europe - everybody wants to charge for everything even if the data is produced by tax-funded public bodies.
As for traffic data, this will never happen. GA is too small. You can buy a TCAS system for ~ £10,000, installed. I would get one if I could find an avionics shop I could trust to not make a mess.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: New South Wales
Of course, there is real time cockpit weather in Europe at the moment, easily and cheaply up to about 3000 feet agl. I have heard tell that sinful people who own Blackberries can use these to get the latest METARs and TAFs from the metoffice weather page in flight. They can even pick up the meteox page.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 518
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From: England
I believe that in the US the 496 can display uploads in real time of weather and traffic. I have never heard of this capability being proposed for UK. Anuone know if this is to come and if not why not? Assuming it is current info it sounds nice to have . Just been reading the Loop report on integrating Zaon traffic alert with the 496 which set me off wondering.
I thought about this also, It would probably only work with a similarly equiped aircraft, and as no one is going to force others to be so equiped, not worth it
I thought about this also, It would probably only work with a similarly equiped aircraft, and as no one is going to force others to be so equiped, not worth it
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
The US XM satellite service doesn't cover Europe. There may be a signal (there always is some "leakage") but probably far too weak to receive using the conventional satellite modem. There are ways to transfer data using sats in Europe but the customer base is too small for a viable business model. Or so everybody thinks...
Traffic info (TIS) comes via the Mode S datalink, from the ground radar station. This could be implemented in Europe, anywhere they have Mode S, just by adding some kit, but it's doubtful whether NATS etc will pay for this as traditional piston GA would be the principal beneficiary, and most of them are clapped out simple planes with no MFD so means of displaying the data. Modern GA is generally fitting TCAS; the £10k cost is not a lot in the context of a £100k instrument fit. In the USA, TIS was used as a carrot to get owner to fit Mode S. In Europe, carrots are not necessary; you just make things mandatory
It is possible to display traffic data on a PDA, connected to a Mode S transponder, so no need to spend £5k on an MFD, but the powers to be will never be imaginative enough to support DIY installations like that.
In the US, Mode S is going to be phased out and replaced with ADS-B.
Traffic info (TIS) comes via the Mode S datalink, from the ground radar station. This could be implemented in Europe, anywhere they have Mode S, just by adding some kit, but it's doubtful whether NATS etc will pay for this as traditional piston GA would be the principal beneficiary, and most of them are clapped out simple planes with no MFD so means of displaying the data. Modern GA is generally fitting TCAS; the £10k cost is not a lot in the context of a £100k instrument fit. In the USA, TIS was used as a carrot to get owner to fit Mode S. In Europe, carrots are not necessary; you just make things mandatory
It is possible to display traffic data on a PDA, connected to a Mode S transponder, so no need to spend £5k on an MFD, but the powers to be will never be imaginative enough to support DIY installations like that.
In the US, Mode S is going to be phased out and replaced with ADS-B.
