Flying below a CTA - who to talk to?
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Flying below a CTA - who to talk to?
Sorry if you all find this a daft question, but...
...if I route north from Ware VRP underneath the Luton/Stansted CTAs at about 2300ft (the CTA is from 2500ft), to whom should I be talking?
Essex Radar?
...if I route north from Ware VRP underneath the Luton/Stansted CTAs at about 2300ft (the CTA is from 2500ft), to whom should I be talking?
Essex Radar?
I would. Sometimes they're too busy to give you anything more than a FIS, but occasionally will offer a radar service -- in that airspace I'll take all the help I can get. Another option is to squawk 0013 and just listen out on Essex Radar.
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I think you might be asking the wrong question, as (I'm sure you know) there is no need or requirement for you to talk to anyone in the open FIR.
I find it better to ask myself "Do I want to get somthing via the radio?"
If the answer is no, then there is no need for me to talk to anyone.
If the answer is yes, then I ask myself "what do I want?", and "who am I most likely to get that from?" The answers then to come easier when you know what you want, rather than wanting to know who you're supposed to be talking to.
dp
I find it better to ask myself "Do I want to get somthing via the radio?"
If the answer is no, then there is no need for me to talk to anyone.
If the answer is yes, then I ask myself "what do I want?", and "who am I most likely to get that from?" The answers then to come easier when you know what you want, rather than wanting to know who you're supposed to be talking to.
dp
is there a list of squark codes ?
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There is no such thing as a daft question.
How am I (as a foreigner) supposed to know that there is something like "Essex Radar", who may provide me with a FIS or RIS, in what area. Or, in general, if I'm in a particular area, how am I supposed to know what services I could use.
Obviously my map shows the FIS with the frequencies for London Info, it shows all CTRs and tower frequencies. ATZ, airfields and AFIS/A/G frequencies are there. It also shows MATZs and their frequencies, and mentions those that offer a LARS. But strangely enough, it only shows frequencies for some CTAs and TMAs. Not for all of them, and no name of the controlling agency. Same, my flight guide contains airfield, ATZ, MATZ, LARS frequencies, but has no list of frequencies for CTAs or TMAs other than the approach frequencies for airfields.
(And I'm then assuming that Essex Radar is somehow the controlling agency for a CTA or TMA that's actually listed on my map. Is that true or does Essex cover another area?)
Furthermore, how am I supposed to determine the squawk code of a facility to be used when just listening in, other than searching through a big document listing every squawk code that may ever be used in the UK?
At least on the Jepp charts, there is a little number near each airspace designator (except ATZ and CTR), and there is a legend somewhere at the edge of the map listing the controlling agencies and their frequencies.
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I fly there all the time, squawk 0013 mode C and listen in to either Luton or Stansted without announcing yourself (whichever you are closest to). If you are near the south eastern tip, it's nice to drop down to 1400 so they don't worry too much about you, but there are some towns around that you have to skirt.
It can be quite busy in that area, particularly near the southern end.
Trying to get in on a FIS can take a while, and by the time you have the service, you are often nearly beyond the point where it's useful! 0013 is a nice new way to go through.
Question for ATC: if you saw two aircraft on a converging course and one (or both) were squawking 0013, would you blind-call to make them aware?
BW
It can be quite busy in that area, particularly near the southern end.
Trying to get in on a FIS can take a while, and by the time you have the service, you are often nearly beyond the point where it's useful! 0013 is a nice new way to go through.
Question for ATC: if you saw two aircraft on a converging course and one (or both) were squawking 0013, would you blind-call to make them aware?
BW
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Backpacker, you should find the details for Essex Radar on the VFR chart, associated with the Stansted CTR - probabably along the edge of the Class D boundary. I don't have a chart to hand to confirm.
They do not provide a service to traffic outside controlled airspace, so no reason for them to have a mention in a flight guide except for the Stansted airport pages. Nothing to stop you giving them a call if you have a specific reason.
The Squawk 0013 is an experiment, known to those who fly regularly in the area, those who frequent fora like this one and a few people who actually read the AICs. There is no obligation and 'foreigners' would not be expected to do it.
They do not provide a service to traffic outside controlled airspace, so no reason for them to have a mention in a flight guide except for the Stansted airport pages. Nothing to stop you giving them a call if you have a specific reason.
The Squawk 0013 is an experiment, known to those who fly regularly in the area, those who frequent fora like this one and a few people who actually read the AICs. There is no obligation and 'foreigners' would not be expected to do it.
aceatco, retired
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Question for ATC: if you saw two aircraft on a converging course and one (or both) were squawking 0013, would you blind-call to make them aware?
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I used to think it was good to talk, but have realised over the past few years that there is often no point or indeed no need when outside CAS.
I was flying under Bristol's airspace a few days ago and thought about calling them up for a FIS just to let them know I was there really. But listening out the lady was pretty busy and basically turning everyone away who wasn't in her airspace with a "listening watch only, keep a good look out"....so I didn't bother as I already had the altimeter.
BUT if I am flying in the SW, I'd nearly always call up Plymouth Mil for a RIS, partly because they can then advise me of danger area status (and hence I can take some short cuts) and also in case they have any fast jets flying around.
I was flying under Bristol's airspace a few days ago and thought about calling them up for a FIS just to let them know I was there really. But listening out the lady was pretty busy and basically turning everyone away who wasn't in her airspace with a "listening watch only, keep a good look out"....so I didn't bother as I already had the altimeter.
BUT if I am flying in the SW, I'd nearly always call up Plymouth Mil for a RIS, partly because they can then advise me of danger area status (and hence I can take some short cuts) and also in case they have any fast jets flying around.
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Tall Guy, the only thing listed in tiny letters near the "Stansted CTA 2000'-3500'" text on my map is 120.625. And as that is the same frequency as what's listed for the CTR as well as for EGSS itself, I would probably call them "Stansted Tower" or "Stansted Approach".
I would be very confused if they came back to me calling themselves Essex Radar, since I have no idea on what/where Essex is.
BTW I have now seen the AIC about 0013. As it's a one-year experiment, fair enough that it's hard for me as a foreigner to obtain that information.
I would be very confused if they came back to me calling themselves Essex Radar, since I have no idea on what/where Essex is.
BTW I have now seen the AIC about 0013. As it's a one-year experiment, fair enough that it's hard for me as a foreigner to obtain that information.
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Got that one. Came with the map. Still would made me call them Stansted Approach instead of Essex Radar.
Reminds me of my (CAA/UK) met exam. Given metform 214/215 and then asked about the weather in Surrey. Surrey, what or where is that?
Reminds me of my (CAA/UK) met exam. Given metform 214/215 and then asked about the weather in Surrey. Surrey, what or where is that?
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I was under the Luton CTA yesterday. I just free called Cranfield and asked for FIS. If your in G airspace there is no requirement to call, but obviously it is good practice to do so. If you call Luton the chances of getting a response are pretty slim and they will only tell you to keep out of their airspace.
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BackPacker, admittedly it's not very obvious but if you check the Stansted textual entry in the AIP it gives the H24 callsign of freq 120.625 as Essex Radar (see EGSS AD 2.18 here).
Any other (VFR) flight guide should be taking its info from the AIP and should pick it up and give Essex Radar as the callsign for 120.625. Would make sense if it was also printed on the chart though.
Any other (VFR) flight guide should be taking its info from the AIP and should pick it up and give Essex Radar as the callsign for 120.625. Would make sense if it was also printed on the chart though.
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Okay, thanks everybody.
Back to the original question of MH152, the correct answer would then presumably be:
"You don't need to talk to anybody, since it's class G. The designated agency for getting a FIS is London Info on 124.6, but you can also try and get a FIS or RIS from nearby units such as Luton (Luton Radar 129.550) or Stansted (Essex Radar 120.625) . In addition to this, there is currently a CAA/NATS trial where you can monitor Luton or Essex Radar without contacting them. Read AIC Yellow 228 and squawk 0013."
Back to the original question of MH152, the correct answer would then presumably be:
"You don't need to talk to anybody, since it's class G. The designated agency for getting a FIS is London Info on 124.6, but you can also try and get a FIS or RIS from nearby units such as Luton (Luton Radar 129.550) or Stansted (Essex Radar 120.625) . In addition to this, there is currently a CAA/NATS trial where you can monitor Luton or Essex Radar without contacting them. Read AIC Yellow 228 and squawk 0013."
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Can anyone explain why Essex Radar is not called Stansted Radar or Stansted Approach? Likewise Solent Radar for Southampton? Solent trips off the tongue slightly easier than Southampton I suppose.
Incidentally,
It is a very good question. So good, that I asked it myself back in 2003!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100714
Incidentally,
Sorry if you all find this a daft question, but...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100714