Ownership costs - circa 2000 Warrior/Archer III
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Ownership costs - circa 2000 Warrior/Archer III
I've found several useful threads on costs of ownership of C172 / PA-28 types. Many thanks to all who have contributed and focused the budgeting process.
There are some good looking Piper Warriors/Archers in the GBP 90-100k price bracket for sale, typically dating back to early 2000s with up to 700 hours.
I'd be grateful if any owners or informed observers could sanity check these figures for a Warrior/Archer III (taking into account the relative newness of the planes I'm looking at). Figures are based on approximately 100 hours per year in the UK and Europe, parked outside (note that it will be in the south of Spain for the English winter):
Insurance: 2,700
Tie-down (Oxford): 1,180
Annual: 1,000
Star annual fund: 700
Repairs / parts: 1,000
Fuel: 4,000
Certainly for yrs 1 and 2 of ownership I would not be providing for an engine fund. Thereafter, given significant salary rise at 2 years PQE if I remain with my current employer, I´d be able to put a good amount away per month for engine issues.
Thoughts and advice appreciated.
Mark
There are some good looking Piper Warriors/Archers in the GBP 90-100k price bracket for sale, typically dating back to early 2000s with up to 700 hours.
I'd be grateful if any owners or informed observers could sanity check these figures for a Warrior/Archer III (taking into account the relative newness of the planes I'm looking at). Figures are based on approximately 100 hours per year in the UK and Europe, parked outside (note that it will be in the south of Spain for the English winter):
Insurance: 2,700
Tie-down (Oxford): 1,180
Annual: 1,000
Star annual fund: 700
Repairs / parts: 1,000
Fuel: 4,000
Certainly for yrs 1 and 2 of ownership I would not be providing for an engine fund. Thereafter, given significant salary rise at 2 years PQE if I remain with my current employer, I´d be able to put a good amount away per month for engine issues.
Thoughts and advice appreciated.
Mark
Join Date: Jun 2003
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I think the £1000 Annual cost may be a bit on the low side, but otherwise the figures seem reasonable for a 5-6 year old plane which should not have any significant airframe issues for another 10 years or so.
However let me make a more general comment. I was in the same boat in 2001. Had a budget like yours, too. The problem is that a Warrior is a low performance machine which is just about OK for general messing about but is not very good for going places. This is why sales of new Warriors and Archers have been so poor in Europe in the last 10 years that you could almost count them on your fingers. Some schools bought some but no private buyer with a brain would pay £150k for a new Warrior, or for a new Cessna 172 for that matter. These things are very bad value for money.
If I was spending £100k I would try to push up the budget a bit; for ~ £130k you can buy a 2001 TB20GT which is simply totally uncomparable to a Warrior or an Archer. This is possible largely because the prices of 4 seat IFR tourers have been bombed by Cirrus, causing the bottom to fall out of the market. And you will still be getting a plane which is cheap to run because it's nearly new. The fuel flow rate of a TB20 at 65% cruise, 138kt, is about 40 litres/hr and if you compare that with an Archer..... However the other costs will be higher: £1500-2000 Annuals for example. You will get an IFR capable tourer which will go anywhere and with a 20,000ft ceiling will get above some 95% of European weather. It will carry 4 in comfort (3 with full fuel). It will just about do UK to Prague and back without landing. The zero-fuel range is roughly Biggin Hill to Corfu. You get two doors so no climbing over the seats (and headset cables etc) to get in or out. And it has the power to get you comfortably out of a 500m tarmac runway at MTOW.
I know every pilot will rant on about his plane being the best thing since sliced bread, but I am trying to make the point that buying a nearly new traditional basic plane doesn't get you much for your money, and a little more suddenly gets you a whole lot of capability which would really future-proof your flying ambitions.
However let me make a more general comment. I was in the same boat in 2001. Had a budget like yours, too. The problem is that a Warrior is a low performance machine which is just about OK for general messing about but is not very good for going places. This is why sales of new Warriors and Archers have been so poor in Europe in the last 10 years that you could almost count them on your fingers. Some schools bought some but no private buyer with a brain would pay £150k for a new Warrior, or for a new Cessna 172 for that matter. These things are very bad value for money.
If I was spending £100k I would try to push up the budget a bit; for ~ £130k you can buy a 2001 TB20GT which is simply totally uncomparable to a Warrior or an Archer. This is possible largely because the prices of 4 seat IFR tourers have been bombed by Cirrus, causing the bottom to fall out of the market. And you will still be getting a plane which is cheap to run because it's nearly new. The fuel flow rate of a TB20 at 65% cruise, 138kt, is about 40 litres/hr and if you compare that with an Archer..... However the other costs will be higher: £1500-2000 Annuals for example. You will get an IFR capable tourer which will go anywhere and with a 20,000ft ceiling will get above some 95% of European weather. It will carry 4 in comfort (3 with full fuel). It will just about do UK to Prague and back without landing. The zero-fuel range is roughly Biggin Hill to Corfu. You get two doors so no climbing over the seats (and headset cables etc) to get in or out. And it has the power to get you comfortably out of a 500m tarmac runway at MTOW.
I know every pilot will rant on about his plane being the best thing since sliced bread, but I am trying to make the point that buying a nearly new traditional basic plane doesn't get you much for your money, and a little more suddenly gets you a whole lot of capability which would really future-proof your flying ambitions.
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I've been looking for the last 3-4 months and agree with IO540 on the TB20. I used to fly the TB10 and despite the design now being 20 years old, still looks great alongside the Piper/Cessna offerings designed in the 1940's and 50's.
