Royal Flights Airspace - Why?
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Royal Flights Airspace - Why?
I am a supporter of the monarchy but in this day and age why do members of the Royal Family have to have special airspace to protect them?
Also given the terrorist threat is it appropriate to notify precise details of the movements of the Royal Family by air?
Discuss!
Also given the terrorist threat is it appropriate to notify precise details of the movements of the Royal Family by air?
Discuss!
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FB - dont even ask if you dont want some ot the military guys trying to shoot you down. See http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=285921 (sorry dont know how to abbreviate the link). I asked the question and you really need to read some of the responses.
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For some of them ( or would that be us ? ) it would be better if they didn't fly at all....................Golfing trips by a certain junior sponger, ahem I mean Royal.
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You'll se my comments on the thread. Bob, if we're talking about the same date / time (which I think we are) then there was no really good reason to disregard current airspace policy in respect of CAS-T
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FB - dont even ask if you dont want some ot the military guys trying to shoot you down.
To respond to the question, I think it entirely appropriate that special precautions should be taken to ensure the safety of the head of state (although I do not consider Andy's golfing trips to warrant any special treatment). Have a look at the security surrounding Air Force 1. I'm sure most nations have similar policies. The impact on the UK would be far more grave if the Queen was taken out by a stray Cessna/Hawk/Boeing (delete as applicable) rather than any other random person, myself included! I think having Royal Flight procedures is common sense.
It would of course be wise to avoid causing unnecessary disruption to other airspace users, but if you want someone to blame, I don't think HMQE2 is the one drawing lines on maps.
For reasons that I won't go into, I think the threat to a Royal Flight from a midair is greater than that from terrorist action.
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Mr Stout my opening gambit was a very simple question viz:
"Hi All,
Would someone be kind enough to explain this please? What am I missing that requires a temporary airway rather than a RA(T)?
Thanks"
Please please tell me how that is designed to upset anyone. If the military guys are to be treated with kid gloves all the time as you seem to be suggesting then fine we can all accede to such requirements as long as we know the reason that makes you so sensitive.
Many thanks
"Hi All,
Would someone be kind enough to explain this please? What am I missing that requires a temporary airway rather than a RA(T)?
Thanks"
Please please tell me how that is designed to upset anyone. If the military guys are to be treated with kid gloves all the time as you seem to be suggesting then fine we can all accede to such requirements as long as we know the reason that makes you so sensitive.
Many thanks
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WH, I was referring to:
early on in the thread, but you later apologized, so no snags. 
Is one to presume you offer that same inane responses over the RT when you are working?
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I think the threat to a Royal Flight from a midair is greater than that from terrorist action
Probably not, given that any terrorist can log into www.ais.org.uk and see the royal flight details (to plus or minus 30 minutes or so) on there.
Probably not, given that any terrorist can log into www.ais.org.uk and see the royal flight details (to plus or minus 30 minutes or so) on there.
Avoid imitations
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Royal Flights Airspace - Why?-----
I am a supporter of the monarchy but in this day and age why do members of the Royal Family have to have special airspace to protect them?
I am a supporter of the monarchy but in this day and age why do members of the Royal Family have to have special airspace to protect them?
Especially head on, at 400 kts
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IO540,
Like I said, I wouldn't go into specifics of security or defence in a public forum, but suffice to say, knowing where it is doesn't necessarily mean the baddies can do anything about it.
Like I said, I wouldn't go into specifics of security or defence in a public forum, but suffice to say, knowing where it is doesn't necessarily mean the baddies can do anything about it.
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Well, clearly it depends on how well the enemy is equipped. The notified temp airspace is in Class G, whose ceiling is 2500ft, 4500ft, 5500ft or some such. A shoulder launched missile (heat seeking as they all are) has, in common knowledge, a ceiling of 10,000ft or so. Being in the right place at the right time is clearly key, and the notam will be awfully handy for that.
I am not expecting you to divulge anything of course, but I still don't get what purpose the CAS notification serves.
As regards mid-airs, a large chunk of GA pilots never check the notams, and those very pilots are least likely to talk to any ATS service, and they are most likely to be non-transponding (due to lack of a transponder, or "as a matter of principle") so won't trigger any TCAS, so temporary CAS offers little protection from a mid-air.
I am not expecting you to divulge anything of course, but I still don't get what purpose the CAS notification serves.
As regards mid-airs, a large chunk of GA pilots never check the notams, and those very pilots are least likely to talk to any ATS service, and they are most likely to be non-transponding (due to lack of a transponder, or "as a matter of principle") so won't trigger any TCAS, so temporary CAS offers little protection from a mid-air.
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Gentlemen, you are missing the point.
The Royal airspace is there to protect us from highly aristocratic (erratic) maneuvering of the type that landed old Charley in the mud on a windswept Scottish Isle (Islay?) a couple of decades ago. I seem to recall that the BAE 146 looked a trice muddy and sorry for itself after the heir to the throne had finished flying it.
Whatever you do don't let Windsor in the cockpit.
SB
The Royal airspace is there to protect us from highly aristocratic (erratic) maneuvering of the type that landed old Charley in the mud on a windswept Scottish Isle (Islay?) a couple of decades ago. I seem to recall that the BAE 146 looked a trice muddy and sorry for itself after the heir to the throne had finished flying it.
Whatever you do don't let Windsor in the cockpit.
SB
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Right! Being on a roll after having been quoted as "Spot on" over this subject before.....Firstly, I am a great believer in the thought that the open FIR is for the use of all fliers, but, I really don't think that a CAS(T) notification is that restrictive to any user. If you have bothered to read your NOTAMS, plan to go around or under/over as appropriate. It happens in Class G less than some have made out. Wherever possible, the crews prefer to fly airways, but occasionally, to meet "Doors Times" it ain't always possible.
The original "Purple Airspace" was introduced many years ago when there were a lot more pointy things flying around the sky at 400kts plus. FJ pilots needed to know where the Royals were to avoid any embarrassing close calls - as several USAF crew found out to their astonishment on landing, finding their bags packed and tickets across the pond booked.
Ok, we may not have as many FJs in the RAF/USAF flying around the UK as when the system was first introduced, but conversely, GA and Bizjet numbers have increased over the years, especially in Class G. Learn to live with it.
As for terrorism - yes, it may be a threat, but there are precautions and countermeasures taken which should NOT be discussed on this or any other thread.
Retiring to study...inside of my eyelids!
A17
The original "Purple Airspace" was introduced many years ago when there were a lot more pointy things flying around the sky at 400kts plus. FJ pilots needed to know where the Royals were to avoid any embarrassing close calls - as several USAF crew found out to their astonishment on landing, finding their bags packed and tickets across the pond booked.
Ok, we may not have as many FJs in the RAF/USAF flying around the UK as when the system was first introduced, but conversely, GA and Bizjet numbers have increased over the years, especially in Class G. Learn to live with it.
As for terrorism - yes, it may be a threat, but there are precautions and countermeasures taken which should NOT be discussed on this or any other thread.
Retiring to study...inside of my eyelids!
A17
