Quality of posts
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That way all the relative newbies can post in "PPL Training" and all of the qualified guys that discuss in the in's and out's of aviation can avoid newbies ?
My experience with such a split is that the newbie forum will quickly become silent while all the newbies migrate to the qualified forum, since that's the place where they can receive answers to their questions. Unless there's enough qualified people who volunteer to keep track of the newbie forum.
What does help, probably, is creating a sort of FAQ list, where the questions that pop up every few weeks, are covered in great detail. Like I did with the sticky about flight training in the US.
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Light bulbs? 
Pah! What tosh!
I sometimes wonder why I bother reading post on this forum, let alone contributing
..... Oh! hang on, what was the question again? 
SS
Pah! What tosh! I sometimes wonder why I bother reading post on this forum, let alone contributing
..... Oh! hang on, what was the question again? SS
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The Original Whirly
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I've been reading and posting on this forum since.....it started! Can anyone else here claim that? Come to think of it, where are they all - LowNSlow, Rightstuffer, BEagler, and a few others I can't remember. And Hungry Pilot, who thought we shouldn't be here...who turned out not to even be a pilot. I think BEagle was in at the beginning too. Probably Genghis the Engineer too. We wanted our own forum, and despite complaints that this was a PROFESSIONAL pilots' rumour network, we finally got it.
Since then the main change I've noticed is that it's got bigger - enormously, hugely, bigger. For a while we all knew each other, but that's not really the case any more. We had fly-ins quite often, and we didn't worry too much where they were to - we just wanted to meet each other, often for the first time. And we thought this was so, so much better than the Flyer Email List, which was probably the only other similar thing around back then.
Apart from that...it goes up and down, more serious, more trivial, more or less aggressive, more or less downright bizarre. I come here less because I have less time, and because whereas back then aviation was still new and exciting for me, that isn't really the case any more. It's not that I don't still enjoy it, but in a different way. I've seen people come and go, and topics come and go and come round again, but that's normal and as it should be. Everything changes, and if it doesn't, it probably stagnates. And yes, every now and then people say that the forum isn't as good as it used to be, and that gets discussed for a while too.
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....and all that.
Since then the main change I've noticed is that it's got bigger - enormously, hugely, bigger. For a while we all knew each other, but that's not really the case any more. We had fly-ins quite often, and we didn't worry too much where they were to - we just wanted to meet each other, often for the first time. And we thought this was so, so much better than the Flyer Email List, which was probably the only other similar thing around back then.
Apart from that...it goes up and down, more serious, more trivial, more or less aggressive, more or less downright bizarre. I come here less because I have less time, and because whereas back then aviation was still new and exciting for me, that isn't really the case any more. It's not that I don't still enjoy it, but in a different way. I've seen people come and go, and topics come and go and come round again, but that's normal and as it should be. Everything changes, and if it doesn't, it probably stagnates. And yes, every now and then people say that the forum isn't as good as it used to be, and that gets discussed for a while too.
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....and all that.
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Originally Posted by IO540
A lot of them have probably gone to the Flyer forum, where they have great volumes but the average quality of posts is as dreadful as ever, and most of the top posters write drivel.
I don't bother there any more as some of the top-53 posters are too strange and never accept when they're wrong. (Frequently).
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Interesting thread. I've been a PPruner for about 18 months, compared with the 26 years I've been in and around flying and flying people. Face to face, I've found nothing but camaraderie, helpfulness, friendship and shared enthusiasm. I've found these qualities on PPrune too, but I was shocked at the level of ridicule, abuse and aggression that I've seen (and suffered!) here. The shock was mainly due to the contrast with the way people help each other in real flying. They bend over backwards to help and accommodate and I've never seen anyone talk like that to each other in real life in the flying world. It can make posting a daunting experience.
Agree about the drivel too, though I'm probably as guilty as anyone.......
) here. The shock was mainly due to the contrast with the way people help each other in real flying. They bend over backwards to help and accommodate and I've never seen anyone talk like that to each other in real life in the flying world. It can make posting a daunting experience.Agree about the drivel too, though I'm probably as guilty as anyone.......
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Originally Posted by kevmusic
I was shocked at the level of ridicule, abuse and aggression that I've seen (and suffered!) here.
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rustle wrote:
You're not even going to look after your own cricket forum?
Bet you don't get another one here
With a couple of notable exceptions (keef/'Dutch/'Donkeys) I agree.
I don't bother there any more as some of the top-53 posters are too strange and never accept when they're wrong. (Frequently).
I don't bother there any more as some of the top-53 posters are too strange and never accept when they're wrong. (Frequently).
Bet you don't get another one here
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I think one factor which kills off a forum is when it gets cliquey i.e. when the top posters know each other personally and use it like a pub. The flyer forum is a lot like a pub now, but the clearest example is ukga.com where practically every thread degenerates into drivel very fast - they all know each other (in fact I gather that forum was started to support a particular airfield community; Sherburn or perhaps Cardiff?).
What I like about pprune is the lack of clique. There isn't much need to read between the lines. I do this stuff for fun while having a cup of tea, and don't have time for posting thousands of one-liners. OTOH I know many will disagree with this, enjoying meetings, fly-ins, etc.
The Guardian article is unsuprising. I know of one forum where people do mostly use their own names, yet I have seen some vicious attacks there. Presumably because they think they will never face the target. However, I would never have anything much to do with the real people afterwards. Also, with nicknames, you never quite know whether the target of your attack might be somebody rather closer to home
Thankfully there are much fewer attacks here now, and it's fairly easy to deal with them.
What I like about pprune is the lack of clique. There isn't much need to read between the lines. I do this stuff for fun while having a cup of tea, and don't have time for posting thousands of one-liners. OTOH I know many will disagree with this, enjoying meetings, fly-ins, etc.
The Guardian article is unsuprising. I know of one forum where people do mostly use their own names, yet I have seen some vicious attacks there. Presumably because they think they will never face the target. However, I would never have anything much to do with the real people afterwards. Also, with nicknames, you never quite know whether the target of your attack might be somebody rather closer to home
Thankfully there are much fewer attacks here now, and it's fairly easy to deal with them.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Originally Posted by stinkinrudda
Perhaps I should write about my latest formation trg wheeze - Battle formation, 500m apart at 500', 150mph - it's the 90 degree turns that make it fun!
Excellent as a mental exercise, but not a lot of practical use for use piston souls, it being a fast-jet flat-knacker in-the-weeds type of thing.
It was, however, practising the above that I had my first, and hopefully last, experience of taking off as a four ship, and coming back as a pair and a singleton, at the EGSX formation week a while back.
As for the quality of the posts...what are people expecting - a free weather forecast, next week's lottery numbers and a money-off voucher at Tesco with every posting?
The Original Whirly
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Hmmmm...less than two days, and already.........TWO PAGES! Maybe we're a bit jaded with all this discussion of aviation and stuff. Let's start a new forum - maybe even a whole new website - on what makes a good poster, subject, thread, discussion, etc. We could take our findings to....well, everyone! 
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Warped Factor, FTAOD my comment about notable exceptions referred only to "notable exceptions within the top-ten posters (who are active)"...
Anyone between #11 & #51 are Good Chaps
Anyone between #11 & #51 are Good Chaps
Last edited by rustle; 14th Jul 2007 at 14:29. Reason: Better explanation
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I thought it would be interesting to get a comparison to Pprune by starting the Flyer thread. If you compare the comments, and the attacks and the language used in the two you gain a considerable incite into some of the individuals in both places.
Both can be good, both can be awful, but a small number of formats being unfriendly can significantly impact the popularity of one over the other. Flyer is more popular, which must mean that more people feel it has the right mix.
I just wish it would stop raining and I could go flying!
Rod1
Both can be good, both can be awful, but a small number of formats being unfriendly can significantly impact the popularity of one over the other. Flyer is more popular, which must mean that more people feel it has the right mix.
I just wish it would stop raining and I could go flying!
Rod1
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As someone who reads both PPRuNe and Flyer (and even uses the same name on both), my observation is that both go up and down in quality. The interesting questions and the useful answers have all been done thoroughly, so to the "old hands" they are repeats and boring. To the newbie who isn't adept with the search facility, they are something else. We oldies have to live with that.
Two things have struck me on both forums:
There are folks who don't shout about who they are (or have been), but whose wisdom and aviation knowledge are beyond what most of us could dream of. Yet those folks get insulted by low-houred (or low-brained) self-appointed experts on both forums. Most don't retaliate - they say nothing, or just leave quietly. I had dinner a few weeks ago with a former RAF aerobatic display pilot and a senior training captain for a major airline (not BA). Both had been told they know nothing ... by a PPL stude with an overinflated ego. They'd both also been "corrected" by a qualified but still less than omniscient recent IR. They chose in both cases to remain anonymous, so I will continue to respect that.
There are trolls on both whose sole aim is to drive people away from the forum they have decided to descend upon. I received enough gratuitous insults a few months ago on PPRuNe (not in here, I hasten to add) that I decided to make my visits very rare.
Two things have struck me on both forums:
There are folks who don't shout about who they are (or have been), but whose wisdom and aviation knowledge are beyond what most of us could dream of. Yet those folks get insulted by low-houred (or low-brained) self-appointed experts on both forums. Most don't retaliate - they say nothing, or just leave quietly. I had dinner a few weeks ago with a former RAF aerobatic display pilot and a senior training captain for a major airline (not BA). Both had been told they know nothing ... by a PPL stude with an overinflated ego. They'd both also been "corrected" by a qualified but still less than omniscient recent IR. They chose in both cases to remain anonymous, so I will continue to respect that.
There are trolls on both whose sole aim is to drive people away from the forum they have decided to descend upon. I received enough gratuitous insults a few months ago on PPRuNe (not in here, I hasten to add) that I decided to make my visits very rare.
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I wish people would stop pitting this forum and flyer forum against each other. Both are good and both have their faults.
As I posted on flyer there is room for everyone. One forum mentioned above yes is the worst I have ever come across but I don't think most even consider it any longer anyway but flip both Flyer and PPRuNe have practically all the same membership anyway so why an issue.
There is no doubt for those of us who have been around a while that we see replications of posts but we ourselves probably posted items when we first started that others took a big sigh too.
When we all meet up at fly ins who would guess where each persons loyalty lies and lets face it it doesn't matter anyway they are Internet forums they don't change the world however self important we all may think we are.
As I posted on flyer there is room for everyone. One forum mentioned above yes is the worst I have ever come across but I don't think most even consider it any longer anyway but flip both Flyer and PPRuNe have practically all the same membership anyway so why an issue.
There is no doubt for those of us who have been around a while that we see replications of posts but we ourselves probably posted items when we first started that others took a big sigh too.
When we all meet up at fly ins who would guess where each persons loyalty lies and lets face it it doesn't matter anyway they are Internet forums they don't change the world however self important we all may think we are.
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IO, don't know if you ever bother with the non-av forum elsewhere, but no doubt you'll be pleased to know that you and I have been singled-out for analysis by the armchair expert.