Microlight fly-in Sandown..poor airmanship
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Knoght paladin
Ah yes. RAF airfields are a great comparison.
I will get back in my keeping safe in the circuit, flying within the limitations of my licence, displaying the correct airmanship box. If you like, I will show you what it looks like so you can get one.
I will get back in my keeping safe in the circuit, flying within the limitations of my licence, displaying the correct airmanship box. If you like, I will show you what it looks like so you can get one.
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Knight
You did not sate weather your figures were for 5 months or the whole year.
Please supply the proof as i just am.
Shoreham 2006 - 69,142
CAA website - Search aircraft movements
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...ments_2006.csv
Also, sort by aero club and you will see Shoreham at 49,000 movements. More than I stated. HOW WRONG IS THAT?
I look forward to your response and link
Please supply the proof as i just am.
Shoreham 2006 - 69,142
CAA website - Search aircraft movements
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...ments_2006.csv
Also, sort by aero club and you will see Shoreham at 49,000 movements. More than I stated. HOW WRONG IS THAT?
I look forward to your response and link
Last edited by jamestkirk; 19th Jun 2007 at 09:25.
Now now ladies, there's no need for argument.
(1) Any pilot should respect any ATZ
(2) Whether there's an ATZ or not, any pilot at circuit height should respect the circuit pattern of any airfield passed or overflown.
(3) There are lots of busy training airfields in Britain, but whether there's one aircraft in the circuit or 20, the circuit should still be respected.
(4) Every pilot ever qualified has at some point made a navigational error - some of these involve inadvertently entering controlled airspace.
(5) Nobody ever screws up deliberately - those who have need a bit of friendly advice, not public humiliation.
(6) BigFlyingRob's airfield doesn't have a published frequency, isn't on the Jeppesen chart (I don't have a CAA chart to hand, is it in there?) and isn't in Pooleys. I've talked to them - on the microlight general use frequency, but that wouldn't be reasonable of a passing light aeroplane - and anyhow, most of the aircraft based there don't always use radio. However, local traffic (e.g. the training traffic out of Elstree) should certainly know it's there and respect the circuit, whilst passing traffic should keep a good look out and try to fit in with an airfield underneath or near them. Given it has "PPR" in enormous letters painted on the top of one of the hangars, it's not that hard to spot!
G
(1) Any pilot should respect any ATZ
(2) Whether there's an ATZ or not, any pilot at circuit height should respect the circuit pattern of any airfield passed or overflown.
(3) There are lots of busy training airfields in Britain, but whether there's one aircraft in the circuit or 20, the circuit should still be respected.
(4) Every pilot ever qualified has at some point made a navigational error - some of these involve inadvertently entering controlled airspace.
(5) Nobody ever screws up deliberately - those who have need a bit of friendly advice, not public humiliation.
(6) BigFlyingRob's airfield doesn't have a published frequency, isn't on the Jeppesen chart (I don't have a CAA chart to hand, is it in there?) and isn't in Pooleys. I've talked to them - on the microlight general use frequency, but that wouldn't be reasonable of a passing light aeroplane - and anyhow, most of the aircraft based there don't always use radio. However, local traffic (e.g. the training traffic out of Elstree) should certainly know it's there and respect the circuit, whilst passing traffic should keep a good look out and try to fit in with an airfield underneath or near them. Given it has "PPR" in enormous letters painted on the top of one of the hangars, it's not that hard to spot!
G
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Get a flight information service if poss when transiting or near an atz. I got one from both Benson and Cranfield on the way down to Sandown and both were VERY helpful. It also helps pass the boredom albeit it's no Radio 4 (sorry Cranfield) but having something to listen to is good!
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We are assuming that he had not been given a transit 15 minutes earlier and we are assuming that he was not avoiding the circuit. We are also assuming you were not flying a bomber command circuit, putting your base leg a long way out from where he would have expected.
With you in circuit, on base, and the runway on your left, which way would should he expect you to turn? Here's a clue... if you hadn't seen him, which way would you have turned?
It sounds a regrettable situation but 'see and avoid' worked.
I hope I never make a mistake that's witnessed by some on here.
With you in circuit, on base, and the runway on your left, which way would should he expect you to turn? Here's a clue... if you hadn't seen him, which way would you have turned?
It sounds a regrettable situation but 'see and avoid' worked.
I hope I never make a mistake that's witnessed by some on here.
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On the plus side I saw some excellent airmanship exhibited by the micro guys at sandown against some challenging weather conditions and a very busy circuit. Workload is very high with a decent wind and circuit pattern etc - more so that a spamcan which will tend to stay where you put it to a greater degree - Well done to all the guys and girls that made the trip and maintained an excellent safety record.
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bar shaker
I don't know if you fly at Shoreham but wide cicuits are a thorn in our sides here as instructors. So no, I would't have been on a wide cicuit.
Your right though. He/she rather turnd the wrong way or just had no idea where they were and was just turning on track or something similar.
Flexy -
Just to clarify: It is not the type of aircraft pilot I was criticising, just the pilot. The title of this thread might be a little acidic but not meant that way.
The halfords one would probably be more accurate than the Cessna ones
Your right though. He/she rather turnd the wrong way or just had no idea where they were and was just turning on track or something similar.
Flexy -
Just to clarify: It is not the type of aircraft pilot I was criticising, just the pilot. The title of this thread might be a little acidic but not meant that way.
The halfords one would probably be more accurate than the Cessna ones
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JT - Steady on old chum! Really can't be arsed to get into some kind of willy-waving contest!
As Genghis says, it doesn't matter how many movements there are, an ATZ is an ATZ. I'm sticking to my guns as regards airfields without them though - those operating from such places (which does include me, on occasion) should be conscious of that fact during their circuit operations. Not saying that it gives everyone carte-blanche to blat through at circuit height without a care in the world on a good VFR day when they could easily go over the top, but if you need to fly at such circuit height for weather on any other reason, then at the end of the day it's bog standard class G. Although it behoves you to have your eyes out on stalks!
As Genghis says, it doesn't matter how many movements there are, an ATZ is an ATZ. I'm sticking to my guns as regards airfields without them though - those operating from such places (which does include me, on occasion) should be conscious of that fact during their circuit operations. Not saying that it gives everyone carte-blanche to blat through at circuit height without a care in the world on a good VFR day when they could easily go over the top, but if you need to fly at such circuit height for weather on any other reason, then at the end of the day it's bog standard class G. Although it behoves you to have your eyes out on stalks!
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Avoiding the circuit of airfield without an ATZ is an impossibility in many cases, since many airstrips are not marked on maps or found in Pooley's. lockyears etc. Not only is the circuit direction unknown, but the existence of the airfield may not be known until you happen to see it (or not!).
I recently came across an unpublished strip with runway lights!
I recently came across an unpublished strip with runway lights!
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Knight Paladin
To be honest, I did not read your 'outside ATZ' comments.. I have no opinion really on airfields without an ATZ othe than I am sure that it's just down to discipline and good lookout.
Shoreham though is as stated. It can be murdurously busy with VFR and IFR tarffic. The IFR procedures being mostly oustide controlled airspace.
My main gripe was the pilot concerned being in and out of cloud in the realms of that VFR and potentially IFR traffic with no radio. It was not against microlights as i quite like the look of them (OK some of them). It was the above incident in an aircraft that should not have been in that stage of flight inside Shorehams ATZ.
I agree that VMC on top is great if you know where you are, and you have the aircraft to do it in and you can safely descend through that coud again. Spatial disorientation / controlled flight into terrain and all that.....
Shoreham though is as stated. It can be murdurously busy with VFR and IFR tarffic. The IFR procedures being mostly oustide controlled airspace.
My main gripe was the pilot concerned being in and out of cloud in the realms of that VFR and potentially IFR traffic with no radio. It was not against microlights as i quite like the look of them (OK some of them). It was the above incident in an aircraft that should not have been in that stage of flight inside Shorehams ATZ.
I agree that VMC on top is great if you know where you are, and you have the aircraft to do it in and you can safely descend through that coud again. Spatial disorientation / controlled flight into terrain and all that.....
Found on another aviation forum:
Sun 10 Jun john blake - Winsford
Just got back from Cosford Air Show, will some body get hold of the TWO microlite NUMTIES who managed to stop the Red Arrows display ,and tear up their licenses,that is providing they even have one. As a private pilot myself ,I was totally disgusted by these cowboys,although I must say not totally surprised. The Microlite Community must get its act together and root out the idiots who seem to be endemic in their organisation !!
Is this just Mr Blake's view of microlight pilots, or is it commonly-held in the GA community? It seems that he has never transgressed some aspect of air law
Sun 10 Jun john blake - Winsford
Just got back from Cosford Air Show, will some body get hold of the TWO microlite NUMTIES who managed to stop the Red Arrows display ,and tear up their licenses,that is providing they even have one. As a private pilot myself ,I was totally disgusted by these cowboys,although I must say not totally surprised. The Microlite Community must get its act together and root out the idiots who seem to be endemic in their organisation !!
Is this just Mr Blake's view of microlight pilots, or is it commonly-held in the GA community? It seems that he has never transgressed some aspect of air law
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snapper41, Before this thread turns into 'Microlight pilots are shoddy, and GA pilots are brilliant and never make mistakes' I remember the GA pilot doing the same over Eastbourne last year.
The year before that the Red Arrows were inbound to an airfield and called up on the wrong frequency, which had changed 6 month earlier, presumably they hadn't read the notam ;-)
What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter if your a Red Arrows / GA / Microlight pilot, we all make mistakes, and hopefully learn from them.
Rans,
www.FlightForLife.co.uk
The year before that the Red Arrows were inbound to an airfield and called up on the wrong frequency, which had changed 6 month earlier, presumably they hadn't read the notam ;-)
What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter if your a Red Arrows / GA / Microlight pilot, we all make mistakes, and hopefully learn from them.
Rans,
www.FlightForLife.co.uk
Rans;
I concur fully! I wasn't attempting to start a microlight v GA argument; we're all flyers after all - it doesn't matter what you get airborne in. That's why I find Mr Blake's comments disappointing.
I concur fully! I wasn't attempting to start a microlight v GA argument; we're all flyers after all - it doesn't matter what you get airborne in. That's why I find Mr Blake's comments disappointing.
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Just to put into perspective, I made the most monumental **** up at work this morning, it was largley down to being distracted by the introduction of new equipment and not paying attention to the job in hand.
There's absolutely no excuse for my error and I held my hands up and admitted as such, both pilots could have (quite rightly) taken it further but elected not to do so.
I suspect that their action was down to the fact that I admitted to my mistake, professional respect and the fact that it happens to us all at least once in every decade...
There's absolutely no excuse for my error and I held my hands up and admitted as such, both pilots could have (quite rightly) taken it further but elected not to do so.
I suspect that their action was down to the fact that I admitted to my mistake, professional respect and the fact that it happens to us all at least once in every decade...