Guide to obtaining a JAA PPL in the US (part 1)

[BackPacker]

destinationsky came back from EFT and wrote a review of his time there.

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...nest-view.html

[BackPacker]

XLCs experiences at EFT:

Trained in Florida in Feb/March 2010 - PPRuNe Forums

[grinst]

US PPL Training

Hi, Thankyou for such a comprehensive and informative PPL guide, I have been researching this myself also. There seems to be a company called UK flight Training in both Florida and California. Have you heard of them and do you have any recommendation or otherwise, Many thanks......Grinst

[The Nr Fairy]

Travelling to USA under Visa waiver program - can't PM Keygrip, needed to share

Keygrip:

Feel free to merge into the locked sticky. Tried sending a PM a while ago, your inbox appeared full.

As of 9th September, you'll need to pay for an ESTA. See BBC News - US to charge £9 for Esta compulsory travel entry form for details.

As it lasts for two years, why not apply now - even if you did recently - and you'll not need to pay.

As an aside, any reason why the UK shouldn't start charging US visitors for visa / visa waivers ?

[BYR]

Thanks a lot for this guide, it answered many of my questions regarding PPL in the US

[shiva.sharma]

thank you very much for the information. this is really very useful.
cheers.

[Campoedu]

English proficient

Hi, I'm going to the states shortly to fly around with my conversion from spanish PPL but without any paper saying I'm english proficient, will I be asked for a proof of english proficiency? can I get it anyway in the states? Thanks

[BackPacker]

I happened to stumble upon this page, and thought it might be worth it to save and share the link here, as it settles the visa issue.

Pleasure, Tourism, Medical Treatment - Visitor Visas (B-2) - As examples, if the purpose of your planned travel is recreational in nature, including tourism, vacation (holiday), amusement, visits with friends or relatives, rest, medical treatment, activities of a fraternal, social, or service nature, and participation by amateurs, who will receive no remuneration, in musical, sports and similar events or contests, then a visitor visa (B-2) would be the appropriate type of visa for your travel. If you are going to the U.S. primarily for tourism, but want to take a short course of study which is recreational (and not for credit towards a degree), and the course is less than 18 hours per week, this is permitted on a visitor visa. As an example, if you are taking a vacation to the U.S., and during this vacation you would like to take a two-day cooking class for your enjoyment, and there is no credit earned, then this would be permitted on a visitor visa. A consular officer will determine the visa category you will need based on the purpose of your travel, and your supporting documentation.

For more information regarding travel and tourism in the United States please visit DiscoverAmerica.org.

Persons planning to travel to the U.S. for a different purpose such as students, temporary workers, crewmen, journalists, etc., must apply for a different visa in the appropriate category. If you are taking a course of study which is 18 hours or more a week, you will need a student visa. When traveling to the U.S. to attend seminars or conferences for credit towards a degree, then you’ll need a student visa.

Visitor Visas - Business and Pleasure

[BackPacker]

Excellent account of JDA2012 who completed his PPL at Blackpool in 28 days (20 days flying):

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...blackpool.html

Well worth the comparison with going abroad.

[jkveenstra]

Thank you for sharing. That makes it far more attractive to do a rating in the US. A full PPL training would also be possible if you don't fly/groundtraining more than 18 hours a week (as I read it).

[ajax103]

This is actually quite interesting but I do have one question.... How can you find out if a particular US based flying school is on the CAA register so any hours with a instructor stateside would indeed count towards the required 45 hours you need if you were to train in the UK?

I've been looking on here as well on Google and I'm stuck

[cruisingeagle]

ppl hrs count towards flt test

at ajax103

yes once u fly 45 hrs u can get the PPL (that is FAA - PPL)
and u can convert it to UK licence by simpliny doing a flt test and tech exam (written exam)

hope this will help u
rgds

[Gomrath]

Originally Posted by BackPacker

If you are going to the U.S. primarily for tourism, but want to take a short course of study which is recreational

You are forgetting that there is a difference between recreational and vocational.

Per the USCIS wording:
"..Courses with more substance or that teach a potential vocation, such as flight training, would be considered part of a “course of study” and thus would require approval of a change of status..."

[BackPacker]

Gomrath, do you have a link for that quote?

Whether you require a visa or not has been the subject of endless debate. And between your USCIS quote and mine from the State Department, it seems the issue is clear: You need an M-1 VISA for flight training, even if it's less than 18 hours a week.

BTW it seems the page I linked to has changed, and the "18 hours a week" reference has gone. The page now claims that the only study allowed on a tourist visa (and thus, under the VWP program), is "enrollment in a short recreational course of study, not for credit toward a degree (for example, a two-day cooking class while on vacation)."

---

Edited: Thanks to Google, it seems the quote from Gomrath is from an from an INS Memorandum from J. Williams for Regional Directors following the April12, 2002 Interim Rule. See English USA - Issues related to study on B status in Intensive English Programs and various others, but I have not yet found a link to the INS/USCIS site directly.

[Gomrath]

Try here for the DOJ letter
http://www.eandvh.com/engine/pubs/ge...spx?id=40&dl=1

[BackPacker]

Gomrath, thanks. Good one.

As far as I'm concerned this settles the issue: You cannot do flight training on a B-1 or B-2 visa, if that flight training is substantial or leads to a potential vocation, and particularly not if the primary purpose of your visit is to do the flight training. And that implies that you also cannot do these kinds of flight training under the VWP.

Obviously a PPL course is considered substantial and may to a potential vocation as it's the stepping stone in a modular ATPL. But whether a "fun" rating such as taildragger, aerobatics or seaplane would also be considered substantial, or leading to a potential vocation, I would not be able to say.

Anyway, the subject of this thread is about an intensive PPL and I think that issue has now been settled.

[BackPacker]

Okay, this is a bit weird. A user on another forum posted this:

But, last week I received an email from the FSDO telling me that I also need to apply through the FAA International Visitor Program. I can't simply turn up at the FSDO, non-US citizens now require a background check before they can set foot on any government property!

(I'd include full credits but I'm not sure the mods allow links to that other forum on here. Try Google instead.)

Upon further investigation, it seems there is now a new, relatively simple background checking process for any foreign visitors that want to visit a US government property. This apparently includes the front desk of an FSDO, if you want to pick up your FAA "piggyback" license. And may include other government facilities that you may need to visit in conjunction with flying in the US.

Here's the FAA link:
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...airs/visitors/

It's not clear to me what the extent of this program is. I would imagine that the front desk of any government facility would be excluded, and that something like this would only be required if you "go behind the scenes". Anyone knows more about this?

[BackPacker]

It seems that "foreign" (non-EU based) EASA flight training providers now fall under the direct oversight of EASA, instead of a national *AA like the CAA.

Here is the list of EASA approved ATOs:

https://easa.europa.eu/easa-and-you/...-organisations

(Thanks to BigGrecian)

[kimsmith]

Great information. JAA training in America now is that the weather is reasonable all year round, and all the schools are geared up towards intensive style training courses.

Thanks for sharing.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Perhaps time to update the title of this thread, JAA is not really an up-to-date term, is it?
The content might be less than current, too...