Do I need a life raft too?
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Do I need a life raft too?
The survival equipment clarification the CAA announced recently still leaves me a little confused. If an aircraft flies fairly regularily to the channel islands with lifejackets and a locator beacon on board does it also require a life raft?
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The US-made Survival Products (I got mine from Harry M) are a lot lighter than the UK-made RFD ones (the latter sold by e.g. Transair) - I had one of the latter on loan for a bit and IMHO it would be difficult to manipulate around the cockpit.
A grand is about the right range. A canopy is essential.
SEMS (Basildon) also sell some rafts I believe. Worth asking them, since they will most likely end up servicing it afterwards.
A grand is about the right range. A canopy is essential.
SEMS (Basildon) also sell some rafts I believe. Worth asking them, since they will most likely end up servicing it afterwards.
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My personal view is that a logical prioritised list of survival equipment for an English Channel crossing goes like this:
(Assumes a radio equipped aircraft of known provenance, crossing at a sensible altitude, Day VFR).
1. Lifejacket
2. Immersion suit (& suitable underclothing.)
3. EPIRB (121.5 MHz OK)
4. Liferaft (canopy strongly preferred)
If you're really keen/nervous:
5. Signal mirror
6. Flares
7. Handheld radio (water protected)
8. Portable GPS (water protected)
I'd personally be happy to cross with "only" lifejacket and immersion suit in Summer - reasoning being my personal view of risk based on the survival times from the chart on p2 of CAA Safety Sense Leaflet 21 "Ditching".
Crossing with jacket only in Summer? I can convince myself it would be (just)acceptable, but wouldn't dream of attempting to convince anyone else...
Note that immersion suits for occupants > liferaft under these circumstances.
(Assumes a radio equipped aircraft of known provenance, crossing at a sensible altitude, Day VFR).
1. Lifejacket
2. Immersion suit (& suitable underclothing.)
3. EPIRB (121.5 MHz OK)
4. Liferaft (canopy strongly preferred)
If you're really keen/nervous:
5. Signal mirror
6. Flares
7. Handheld radio (water protected)
8. Portable GPS (water protected)
I'd personally be happy to cross with "only" lifejacket and immersion suit in Summer - reasoning being my personal view of risk based on the survival times from the chart on p2 of CAA Safety Sense Leaflet 21 "Ditching".
Crossing with jacket only in Summer? I can convince myself it would be (just)acceptable, but wouldn't dream of attempting to convince anyone else...
Note that immersion suits for occupants > liferaft under these circumstances.
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Make sure you get one with a fitted canopy, designed for cold water:
There are cheapo versions on the (US) market, which are lightweight and are designed for balmy Pacific evenings with no wind/spray: Some even have a canopy which is separate and has to be attached once liferaft is inflated: Try that in the Channel with a force 6 in mid January...................
GBP1k should do the trick...........
Safe flying
Cusco.
There are cheapo versions on the (US) market, which are lightweight and are designed for balmy Pacific evenings with no wind/spray: Some even have a canopy which is separate and has to be attached once liferaft is inflated: Try that in the Channel with a force 6 in mid January...................
GBP1k should do the trick...........
Safe flying
Cusco.
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Dave,
“for an English Channel crossing”
Are we talking about the short crossing? My aircraft is out of gliding range for 90 sec, it is the busiest waterway in the world if you need to ditch. I just go with my life jacket. The long crossing – agree 100%.
Rod1
“for an English Channel crossing”
Are we talking about the short crossing? My aircraft is out of gliding range for 90 sec, it is the busiest waterway in the world if you need to ditch. I just go with my life jacket. The long crossing – agree 100%.
Rod1
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IO not only that but because it is only 90 seconds glide he must be immune to the shock of very cold water, and able to swim in strong currents and large waves.
Like I said, surving the ditch is the first hurdle. Surving the cold is the second. Survining the shock is the 3rd. Surving the current is the 4th. if after that you are still alive which will not be too long if you are not in a dry suit you then face the challenge of surviving until rescued.
If any of you have swam in the sea when you are 10's of miles out from the coast you might be aware that you could possibly be swimming backwards away from where you want to be going. Also shipping lanes and shipping lanes for a reason. Usually because they are very deep, which usuually means very strong currents and bloody cold.
Life raft all the way for me. Even if you can't get in it, you can cling to it. SAR's will see a raft more easily than a corpse in a jacket.
Like I said, surving the ditch is the first hurdle. Surving the cold is the second. Survining the shock is the 3rd. Surving the current is the 4th. if after that you are still alive which will not be too long if you are not in a dry suit you then face the challenge of surviving until rescued.
If any of you have swam in the sea when you are 10's of miles out from the coast you might be aware that you could possibly be swimming backwards away from where you want to be going. Also shipping lanes and shipping lanes for a reason. Usually because they are very deep, which usuually means very strong currents and bloody cold.
Life raft all the way for me. Even if you can't get in it, you can cling to it. SAR's will see a raft more easily than a corpse in a jacket.
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Off the top of my head;
The Short crossing is 18 miles wide. From 4000 ft I can glide 8.33 miles. I am out of gliding range for 1.34 miles. In one minute at best glide speed I will cover 1.17 miles, so I added a few seconds to get to 90, it is probably closer to 75. There is a lot of ridicules scaremongering on the problems of the short crossing, the chances of complete engine failure in that 75 sec is very low without some prior warning. If this does happen then the chances of being within gliding range of a suitable vessel – preferably a warship – to fish you out is very high.
Yes I did pass my open water survival course, but it was some years ago.
Rod1
The Short crossing is 18 miles wide. From 4000 ft I can glide 8.33 miles. I am out of gliding range for 1.34 miles. In one minute at best glide speed I will cover 1.17 miles, so I added a few seconds to get to 90, it is probably closer to 75. There is a lot of ridicules scaremongering on the problems of the short crossing, the chances of complete engine failure in that 75 sec is very low without some prior warning. If this does happen then the chances of being within gliding range of a suitable vessel – preferably a warship – to fish you out is very high.
Yes I did pass my open water survival course, but it was some years ago.
Rod1
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Liferafts have their uses but the majority of PPLs would be much better off with an immersion suite.
Look at the research done for survival after helicopter ditching. When people go offshore they have a high specification survival suite, lifejacket, emergency escape rebreather (to get out of the chopper) and a thermal insulation garment under the suite but in addition to clothing.
With that equipment they have a very good prospect of being alive after 2 hours in the North Sea. Without the suite it is highly unlikely you will be able to get into a liferaft unless you can manage a helicopter type ditching (and remember they all have floatation aids to help to keep them afloat long enough to get into a liferaft. If you have to get into a raft from the sea it is fundamentally more difficult (especially in the little rafts that we carry). If you are not in it within a couple of minutes you won't get in it at all. You might tie yourself to the raft but without a suite you'll be unconscious and then dead long before the rescue services arrive unless someone saw you going down or you make a decent mayday call.
But having said all that I'm still happy to do the short crossing with just a lifejacket. The time you are exposed is very short, the chances of an engine failure occuring with no warning just beyond the point of no-return is vanishingly small.
Look at the research done for survival after helicopter ditching. When people go offshore they have a high specification survival suite, lifejacket, emergency escape rebreather (to get out of the chopper) and a thermal insulation garment under the suite but in addition to clothing.
With that equipment they have a very good prospect of being alive after 2 hours in the North Sea. Without the suite it is highly unlikely you will be able to get into a liferaft unless you can manage a helicopter type ditching (and remember they all have floatation aids to help to keep them afloat long enough to get into a liferaft. If you have to get into a raft from the sea it is fundamentally more difficult (especially in the little rafts that we carry). If you are not in it within a couple of minutes you won't get in it at all. You might tie yourself to the raft but without a suite you'll be unconscious and then dead long before the rescue services arrive unless someone saw you going down or you make a decent mayday call.
But having said all that I'm still happy to do the short crossing with just a lifejacket. The time you are exposed is very short, the chances of an engine failure occuring with no warning just beyond the point of no-return is vanishingly small.
