JAA IR Working Group Update
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So those who do an IR now and then move onto a CPL or an ATPL do the theory required for those levels. There will be nothing more to do on the IR front. The IR is the IR and thats it.
Many thanks for all your efforts Bose-x, and those of eveyone involved (edited to be more widespread on the thanks front
)
Last edited by Slopey; 27th May 2007 at 19:56.
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It's not just my efforts, I have just become a mouthpiece for a vey bunch of dedicated people from AOPA, PPLIR and the CAA.
Every member of the working group has been very commited to this process, this includes the CAA representatives who contrary to opinion are very dedicated to the GA cause and were very active and supportive to the aims.
I genuinly believe that YOU as the GA flyer have been represented by people who understand the isses both on a needs of the GA flyer and the issues around regulatory change.
AS I have said before, we can't move mountains, we have to chip away gently and I believe we have a chipped away a good chunk!
Every member of the working group has been very commited to this process, this includes the CAA representatives who contrary to opinion are very dedicated to the GA cause and were very active and supportive to the aims.
I genuinly believe that YOU as the GA flyer have been represented by people who understand the isses both on a needs of the GA flyer and the issues around regulatory change.
AS I have said before, we can't move mountains, we have to chip away gently and I believe we have a chipped away a good chunk!
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Bose well done again but I have to take one issue
Now whilst I know some very good people within the CAA who I have found very helpful there is a contradiction that is inexcusable:
1. The lack of a PPL/IR has been a thorn for a very very long time, in fact since shortly after I started flying when it was relatively easy (and that was along time ago). For wahtever reason the CAA has chosen to do nothing about it until now,
2. The mode S issue is a complete mess with an apparent lack of understanding of the issues on the part of the CAA (and I dont claim they are wrong in what they have sought to achieve, but they have made a complete hash with the way they have gone about it),
3. The recent farce over liferaft, EPIRBS etc - they should have seen that coming.
They may well be GA friendly, but (and I am trying to be kind) thay also seem to be an organisation in which the right hand is struggling to talk to the left
Every member of the working group has been very commited to this process, this includes the CAA representatives who contrary to opinion are very dedicated to the GA cause and were very active and supportive to the aims.
1. The lack of a PPL/IR has been a thorn for a very very long time, in fact since shortly after I started flying when it was relatively easy (and that was along time ago). For wahtever reason the CAA has chosen to do nothing about it until now,
2. The mode S issue is a complete mess with an apparent lack of understanding of the issues on the part of the CAA (and I dont claim they are wrong in what they have sought to achieve, but they have made a complete hash with the way they have gone about it),
3. The recent farce over liferaft, EPIRBS etc - they should have seen that coming.
They may well be GA friendly, but (and I am trying to be kind) thay also seem to be an organisation in which the right hand is struggling to talk to the left
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That may be so but lets not tar everyone with the same brush. The working group representatives have shown great commitment to this process and I think it is unfair for you to vent your frustrations with the CAA as a whole on them when you have had no involvement in the direct dealings with them.
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True, and I accept your words of caution.
For the sake of clarity, I was only referring to the CAAs involvement with the issue, not others.
Moreover, I am the very first to welcome change.
Equally, if you are the regulatory body you (and I am not referring to the individuals) must accept responsibility for the sad state of affairs that has arisen in Europe with regards the private IR that has resulted in the proliferation of N regs - please call me a cynic, but I have to wonder how much that has driven this change in policy.
All that said - a cheer to a brighter future from me!
For the sake of clarity, I was only referring to the CAAs involvement with the issue, not others.
Moreover, I am the very first to welcome change.
Equally, if you are the regulatory body you (and I am not referring to the individuals) must accept responsibility for the sad state of affairs that has arisen in Europe with regards the private IR that has resulted in the proliferation of N regs - please call me a cynic, but I have to wonder how much that has driven this change in policy.
All that said - a cheer to a brighter future from me!
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Is not one of the problems with the modern CAA that it is split up not joined up?
The Mode S issue came via DAP. The JAA/IR group comes under PLD and the GPS NPA under ATSD.
Apart from the fact that DAP are not even in the same building, it seems that issues of today have to cross the traditional boundaries of an organisation which is slow to change.
And from what I've heard so slimmed down individuals have excessive leverage within their spheres of influence with no checks or balances.
Add to the fact that you'll be hard pressed to find many practising GA pilots in the class of a/c about which we chatter within the CAA and it's actually a miracle that BX and co have dragged them this far.
We haven't even mentioned the Light A/c study group that our old (emphasis on old) friend G-KEST gave up his valuable time for recently.
So, a new initiative. CAA Lite for GA
All in favour say Affirm
Sir George Cayley
The Mode S issue came via DAP. The JAA/IR group comes under PLD and the GPS NPA under ATSD.
Apart from the fact that DAP are not even in the same building, it seems that issues of today have to cross the traditional boundaries of an organisation which is slow to change.
And from what I've heard so slimmed down individuals have excessive leverage within their spheres of influence with no checks or balances.
Add to the fact that you'll be hard pressed to find many practising GA pilots in the class of a/c about which we chatter within the CAA and it's actually a miracle that BX and co have dragged them this far.
We haven't even mentioned the Light A/c study group that our old (emphasis on old) friend G-KEST gave up his valuable time for recently.
So, a new initiative. CAA Lite for GA
All in favour say Affirm
Sir George Cayley
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This is my first post but i have been following this thread with great attention.
I would like to know if this new JAA-IR is going to be implemented in all JAA land or just in the UK. I ask this because i am not an UK citizen, but I live in JAA land
My question has to do with the fact that I only see mentions to the CAA (UK).
I would like to know if this new JAA-IR is going to be implemented in all JAA land or just in the UK. I ask this because i am not an UK citizen, but I live in JAA land
My question has to do with the fact that I only see mentions to the CAA (UK).
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The last meeting of the WG happended as planned in May and we have been working on the final content of the report for the last 10 days. This is now complete and will be submitted to the Head of PLD today as planned.
Once it has been submitted I will make a copy available here for review.
Once it has been submitted I will make a copy available here for review.
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We have put recomendations for response from the head of PLD within a 2 month time frame from today. Looking at the commitment from the CAA team so far I think we may see a response sooner rather than later.
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Bose-X ... come in please!!
We have put recomendations for response from the head of PLD within a 2 month time frame from today. Looking at the commitment from the CAA team so far I think we may see a response sooner rather than later.
Thanks
3Y
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We have put recomendations for response from the head of PLD within a 2 month time frame from today.
I would be cautiously optimistic that something may happen in the next 6 months to implement some of these recommendaitons
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Come on chaps. This has to go before JAA for approval, and then EASA will be having a go at something else anyway.
Looking at the latest info on how far the committee got with the UK CAA, there is a small reduction in the theory content but few significant concessions elsewhere, and as I say this is before the JAA committees (which all around Europe are loaded with elitist ex military and ex flag carrier airline types) have a go at it.
In the time people on here have been waiting for a result, they could have done any likely difference between the existing JAA PPL/IR and any resulting PPL/IR.
The practicalities of EASA FCL takeover (and its limited staffing and general reluctance to tackle hot potatoes) will mean - or so the existing national CAAs very much hope - that any pre-existing JAA regs are adopted whole. This has to be "the big hope" in all this, otherwise nobody would be working on a new IR just a year before EASA's FCL takeover. But this is living on borrowed time because EASA has clearly stated they want to chuck out most of the JAA nonsense which is for the most part way OTT for private GA flight.
I reckon that in 5 years' time we will be looking at a very different picture, but if I wanted to do an IR now for privileges in a G-reg I would just get on with it. For sure, whatever flying you do now (and flying is the expensive bit) will be allowed towards any new rating even if one arrived before you finish.
And if you really need (for financial reasons) the proposed concession of allowing your past IMC Rating training time towards the IR, you won't be able to do much IFR flying anyway afterwards.
Looking at the latest info on how far the committee got with the UK CAA, there is a small reduction in the theory content but few significant concessions elsewhere, and as I say this is before the JAA committees (which all around Europe are loaded with elitist ex military and ex flag carrier airline types) have a go at it.
In the time people on here have been waiting for a result, they could have done any likely difference between the existing JAA PPL/IR and any resulting PPL/IR.
The practicalities of EASA FCL takeover (and its limited staffing and general reluctance to tackle hot potatoes) will mean - or so the existing national CAAs very much hope - that any pre-existing JAA regs are adopted whole. This has to be "the big hope" in all this, otherwise nobody would be working on a new IR just a year before EASA's FCL takeover. But this is living on borrowed time because EASA has clearly stated they want to chuck out most of the JAA nonsense which is for the most part way OTT for private GA flight.
I reckon that in 5 years' time we will be looking at a very different picture, but if I wanted to do an IR now for privileges in a G-reg I would just get on with it. For sure, whatever flying you do now (and flying is the expensive bit) will be allowed towards any new rating even if one arrived before you finish.
And if you really need (for financial reasons) the proposed concession of allowing your past IMC Rating training time towards the IR, you won't be able to do much IFR flying anyway afterwards.
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IO540,
Sadly I agree with your view of this subject. I personally don't think that even at UK level, the CAA can move that quickly, however that isn't what Bose-X has been telling us on here. Are you on the Working Group too?
I look forward to hearing from Bose-X as I'm pretty sure that he originally claimed that this would be pushed through before EASA took over, avoiding the pan-european discussions. However unlikely that may seem.
I think that there are many people like me, not needing ATPLs, with serious IFR aeroplanes who just want to go places, but don't have the TIME to learn how many stewardesses I'd need on a 747.
Bose-X any news gratefully received.
Sadly I agree with your view of this subject. I personally don't think that even at UK level, the CAA can move that quickly, however that isn't what Bose-X has been telling us on here. Are you on the Working Group too?
I look forward to hearing from Bose-X as I'm pretty sure that he originally claimed that this would be pushed through before EASA took over, avoiding the pan-european discussions. However unlikely that may seem.
I think that there are many people like me, not needing ATPLs, with serious IFR aeroplanes who just want to go places, but don't have the TIME to learn how many stewardesses I'd need on a 747.
Bose-X any news gratefully received.
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Things are still moving along on the IR front. We received the response document from the head of PLD as agreed very rapidly. I will seek agreement to post an overview of his comments. The recommendations have been forwarded to the EASA Licencing working group and are being consulted on at the moment.
I am waiting to see the final cut of the theory element but I do know that significant chunks have been removed. For the record though, there is an awful lot of hearsay on conjecture on the content of the theory. Mostly propogated by those with IR's who want the rest of the world to think they are so cool for doing someting so hard.....
In fact the IR exams are actually pretty easy and if you put some effort in you can get through them very quickly.
The modular approach to the IR, i.e 10 hrs followed by the balance has been agreed and is in force.
Whilst IO540 is not on the working group and is great at speculation I do agree that the next 5 years are going to see some very interesting changes in European Aviation.
We have other things that we are reviewing at the moment and I will post on them in due course.
The future is quite bright............
I am waiting to see the final cut of the theory element but I do know that significant chunks have been removed. For the record though, there is an awful lot of hearsay on conjecture on the content of the theory. Mostly propogated by those with IR's who want the rest of the world to think they are so cool for doing someting so hard.....
In fact the IR exams are actually pretty easy and if you put some effort in you can get through them very quickly.The modular approach to the IR, i.e 10 hrs followed by the balance has been agreed and is in force.
Whilst IO540 is not on the working group and is great at speculation I do agree that the next 5 years are going to see some very interesting changes in European Aviation.
We have other things that we are reviewing at the moment and I will post on them in due course.
The future is quite bright............
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Bose,
Thanks for that update.
Are you saying that I could NOW go and do 10 hours IR training without the exams?
... I have no doubt, I just hope it comes soon enough!
Thanks for that update.
The modular approach to the IR, i.e 10 hrs followed by the balance has been agreed and is in force
The future is quite bright............
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Are you saying that I could NOW go and do 10 hours IR training without the exams?
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Well done Bose, about time the IR access was given to all and it wasnt seen as an expensive nice-to-have but a reasonable priced nessecity for anyone who flies on regular basis.
I look forward to a favourable outcome.
J.
I look forward to a favourable outcome.
J.
