Breaking the law?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Essex
Breaking the law?
I've had a look through the ANO for the answer to this question - but cant cut through the legal jargon for a definitive answer. Am I breaking the law by advertising for passangers to get in contact with me if they want to fly to a location, on the agreement that I pay the costs of the flight, and they pay a share of those costs?
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
What you describe would certainly be illegal.
A notice on the Flying Club noticeboard stating "Anyone fancy sharing costs on a trip to XXXX and back" would be OK, as I understand it. But that's about it.
A notice on the Flying Club noticeboard stating "Anyone fancy sharing costs on a trip to XXXX and back" would be OK, as I understand it. But that's about it.
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: South Yorkshire
For a summary of the ANO, have a look in http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/122/summar..._transport.pdf , esp Section 5.3.1.
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From: EuroGA.org
I agree with your answer to the original Q in the presumed context, Beagle, but notice on the Flying Club noticeboard is a bit of a grey area.
One can advertise flight sharing (i.e. flights where somebody comes along and optionally pays his share of the cost, according to the G-reg PPL cost sharing rules) on a website, if it belongs to a reasonably closed group which you have to become a member of. This is done. It isn't necessary for the advert to be pinned to a wall made of a specified material, in a physical flying club.
One can advertise flight sharing (i.e. flights where somebody comes along and optionally pays his share of the cost, according to the G-reg PPL cost sharing rules) on a website, if it belongs to a reasonably closed group which you have to become a member of. This is done. It isn't necessary for the advert to be pinned to a wall made of a specified material, in a physical flying club.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Essex
IO540 - coming at this from the opposite direction, would it be illegal for passengers to post details on this site about a trip they wish to make? Any pilot then willing to take them could make a private arrangement with the passenger.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Dublin
In general the spare seats thread doesn't advertise flights.
Pilots simply share contact details in order to arrange a flight, for which either no consideration will be given, or within the cost share rules.
Pilots simply share contact details in order to arrange a flight, for which either no consideration will be given, or within the cost share rules.
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: UK
For cost sharing to be legal:
no information shall have been published or advertised prior to the commencement of the flight other than, in the case of an aircraft operated by a flying club, advertising wholly within the premises of such a flying club in which case all the persons carried on such a flight who are aged 18 years or over shall be members of that flying club;
None of 'information', 'published', 'advertised', or 'flying club' are defined in the ANO!
I think the intention is perfectly clear -- the participants must understand the limitations of private flying and not believe that they are paying for a public transport operation. But intention is not necessarily important when it comes to legislation.
no information shall have been published or advertised prior to the commencement of the flight other than, in the case of an aircraft operated by a flying club, advertising wholly within the premises of such a flying club in which case all the persons carried on such a flight who are aged 18 years or over shall be members of that flying club;
None of 'information', 'published', 'advertised', or 'flying club' are defined in the ANO!
I think the intention is perfectly clear -- the participants must understand the limitations of private flying and not believe that they are paying for a public transport operation. But intention is not necessarily important when it comes to legislation.
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Ireland!
Hmm, Obviously law varies from country to country... but presumably the basics of it is...
- If you want to fly with someone, and they want to pay "fuel money" it is ok, providing it is only offered to club members, friends, family, etc, decide how friendly PPRuNe members are too you
.
- If you want to fly someone, somewhere where they pay for you to do so, it is illegal.
- If someone advertises that they want to go somewhere, and it is not on the basis that you are also covering your share of the costs, it is illegal.
- If you want to fly with someone, and they want to pay "fuel money" it is ok, providing it is only offered to club members, friends, family, etc, decide how friendly PPRuNe members are too you
.- If you want to fly someone, somewhere where they pay for you to do so, it is illegal.
- If someone advertises that they want to go somewhere, and it is not on the basis that you are also covering your share of the costs, it is illegal.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
MM, If you have two pilots on board, and no passengers, the custom is that each pilot pays for his own leg(s) (where he/she is PIC) in full. No cost sharing whatsoever.
Good idea to make a few agreements, CRM-style, beforehand on distribution of tasks. Typically the PIC flies the plane, also in case of emergency, and the other pilot does radio and nav. But that's not a hard and fast rule. It also depends on the type of flight and whatever additional tasks there are in-flight.
Good idea to make a few agreements, CRM-style, beforehand on distribution of tasks. Typically the PIC flies the plane, also in case of emergency, and the other pilot does radio and nav. But that's not a hard and fast rule. It also depends on the type of flight and whatever additional tasks there are in-flight.
