Navigation Woes...
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Beagle, one word... PocketFMS
On the PC it downloads charts, airspace structures, weather, you name it, all from the internet. You select your origin and destination, set parameters on airspaces to avoid and it even calculates the route for you. Including wind corrections, fuel burn, legal alternates, the works.
You then transfer all this info to your PDA, attach the PDA in the cockpit somewhere so that it's visible, hook it up to a GPS receiver (antenna) and go flying. If your PDA has an internet connection you don't even have to use a PC at all - although the larger screen helps a lot when you do your route planning.
On the PC it downloads charts, airspace structures, weather, you name it, all from the internet. You select your origin and destination, set parameters on airspaces to avoid and it even calculates the route for you. Including wind corrections, fuel burn, legal alternates, the works.
You then transfer all this info to your PDA, attach the PDA in the cockpit somewhere so that it's visible, hook it up to a GPS receiver (antenna) and go flying. If your PDA has an internet connection you don't even have to use a PC at all - although the larger screen helps a lot when you do your route planning.
Ironically, a few minutes after posting I received an e-mail describing Flymap UK's system. Which provides the functionality I was trying to describe!
Plan route on a laptop, including NOTAMs and controlled airspace restrictions on a CAA 1:500 000 VFR chart. Then add met data, do W&B and fuel calculations and transfer to USB stick, together with appropriate Pooley's Guide plates. Print off a paper PLOG as back up.
Insert USB stick into aircraft unit and import your flight plan.
It sounds excellent and is surely the way ahead for the 21st century.
The aircraft units include a kneeboard system and a panel mount system; all include a GPS, of course.
Plan route on a laptop, including NOTAMs and controlled airspace restrictions on a CAA 1:500 000 VFR chart. Then add met data, do W&B and fuel calculations and transfer to USB stick, together with appropriate Pooley's Guide plates. Print off a paper PLOG as back up.
Insert USB stick into aircraft unit and import your flight plan.
It sounds excellent and is surely the way ahead for the 21st century.
The aircraft units include a kneeboard system and a panel mount system; all include a GPS, of course.
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The function you are looking for, Beagle, is traditionally called "E6B" in American products, and most modern aviation GPSs have it. You enter the track, distance, TAS, wind, and out pops the heading, ETE etc.
Personally I find it far quicker to start up Navbox, click on the relevant points, and out comes the whole plog. In the absence of a printer it takes only minutes to copy it out onto the paper plog on the kneeboard.
Personally I find it far quicker to start up Navbox, click on the relevant points, and out comes the whole plog. In the absence of a printer it takes only minutes to copy it out onto the paper plog on the kneeboard.
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Beagle, just one word of caution if you decide to invest heavily in any of these systems. Apparently most, or all, of these programs out there used DAFIF, a freely accessible US military database, as the source of their aeronautical data.
DAFIF is now gone. See an explanation on http://www.navaid.com/dafif.html. All of these projects, therefore, now need to find new sources of aeronautical data, and some are more successful than others. If you need a solution right now, try to figure out where your program of choice is getting its data from, how accurate it is and how they plan to maintain that source in the future. If you don't need it right now, this might be a good time to wait and see what happens. Because there is going to be an inevitable shakeout in this area as all of a sudden the cost involved in obtaining the aero data (both financially and timewise) has gone up significantly.
PocketFMS, as an example, is transitioning from DAFIF to UMN, User Maintained NavData, where the users of PocketFMS themselves supply the aeronautical data, probably based on local AIPs, local charts and so forth. Apart from accuracy and timeliness issues, there's also the issue of legality and possibly copyright as well. It's going to be interesting to see how this is going to work in the next few years.
(Note that this is not relevant for anything that's based on the Jeppesen database. But as far as I know, these are very expensive.)
Regardless of what you use for actual navigation, make sure you have a legal, paper-based backup plan!
DAFIF is now gone. See an explanation on http://www.navaid.com/dafif.html. All of these projects, therefore, now need to find new sources of aeronautical data, and some are more successful than others. If you need a solution right now, try to figure out where your program of choice is getting its data from, how accurate it is and how they plan to maintain that source in the future. If you don't need it right now, this might be a good time to wait and see what happens. Because there is going to be an inevitable shakeout in this area as all of a sudden the cost involved in obtaining the aero data (both financially and timewise) has gone up significantly.
PocketFMS, as an example, is transitioning from DAFIF to UMN, User Maintained NavData, where the users of PocketFMS themselves supply the aeronautical data, probably based on local AIPs, local charts and so forth. Apart from accuracy and timeliness issues, there's also the issue of legality and possibly copyright as well. It's going to be interesting to see how this is going to work in the next few years.
(Note that this is not relevant for anything that's based on the Jeppesen database. But as far as I know, these are very expensive.)
Regardless of what you use for actual navigation, make sure you have a legal, paper-based backup plan!
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There is a mixup of things here.
Firstly, contrary to disinformation spread in all pilot forums, there is no legal requirement to carry any kind of printed or paper flight planning / map data, in the UK, in the USA, or anywhere else in Europe that I know of. There are such rules in some places but not in the main parts of the world we are talking about here. So electronic data is 100% legal. Which is not to say that flying without paper is wise (personally I print off chart enroute sections, and plates for dest+alternate) but it's not a legal requirement.
Second, no national CAA specifies, for private flights, how one should navigate. They may specify equipment to be carried, but that is a whole different thing.
Third, copyright (as in alleged breach of copyright of nav data) doesn't come into it as far as the legality of a flight is concerned. If PocketFMS start sending out maps which are ripped off from some copyright source (and practically everything map-wise in Europe is copyright) then they might get into trouble. One way to get around this is to get the users themselves to "procure" the said data, by downloading it from various websites, e.g. Eurocontrol. In fact the latter is now the place of choice for getting all the navaid etc data, and there are ways (which I won't give here) through which one can get all the CAS coordinates etc as well. So I think PFMS will be OK - they just need to stick to public domain maps (like the U.S. ONC stuff) and avoid blatent ripoffs from say Memory Map - but e.g. enabling users to run MM charts, while upsetting MM, would not land PFMS in any trouble.
IMHO, user updating of data will never work. It might be OK for the lat/long of Stapleford, but it won't work in places where GA is thin or nonexistent, which is basically most of Europe. They need to move to a chargeable model, where somebody gets the (unenviable) job of procuring the AIPs and maintaining the database. And also acting on email reports of errors; something that Jepp obviously don't do.
Flymap is an interesting product. I just wish they came out with a WinXP package, which can run on any laptop/tablet.
Firstly, contrary to disinformation spread in all pilot forums, there is no legal requirement to carry any kind of printed or paper flight planning / map data, in the UK, in the USA, or anywhere else in Europe that I know of. There are such rules in some places but not in the main parts of the world we are talking about here. So electronic data is 100% legal. Which is not to say that flying without paper is wise (personally I print off chart enroute sections, and plates for dest+alternate) but it's not a legal requirement.
Second, no national CAA specifies, for private flights, how one should navigate. They may specify equipment to be carried, but that is a whole different thing.
Third, copyright (as in alleged breach of copyright of nav data) doesn't come into it as far as the legality of a flight is concerned. If PocketFMS start sending out maps which are ripped off from some copyright source (and practically everything map-wise in Europe is copyright) then they might get into trouble. One way to get around this is to get the users themselves to "procure" the said data, by downloading it from various websites, e.g. Eurocontrol. In fact the latter is now the place of choice for getting all the navaid etc data, and there are ways (which I won't give here) through which one can get all the CAS coordinates etc as well. So I think PFMS will be OK - they just need to stick to public domain maps (like the U.S. ONC stuff) and avoid blatent ripoffs from say Memory Map - but e.g. enabling users to run MM charts, while upsetting MM, would not land PFMS in any trouble.
IMHO, user updating of data will never work. It might be OK for the lat/long of Stapleford, but it won't work in places where GA is thin or nonexistent, which is basically most of Europe. They need to move to a chargeable model, where somebody gets the (unenviable) job of procuring the AIPs and maintaining the database. And also acting on email reports of errors; something that Jepp obviously don't do.
Flymap is an interesting product. I just wish they came out with a WinXP package, which can run on any laptop/tablet.
Personally I think that the core NavDB should be hosted on a web server, to which you would subscribe, rather than a possibly out-of-date database in the unit.
Together with a web-based met system. Do all the planning on the web, transfer the data to the local unit when complete.
Together with a web-based met system. Do all the planning on the web, transfer the data to the local unit when complete.
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After going through the CRP5 cd and a few more examples from the books I was once again banging my head against a brick wall.
Today I managed to get to the Airport (supposedly for a lesson but the weather thought different!) and my instructor took me through it step by step. At last I reckon I can see the light!
I will be going through the confuser questions either tomorrow night or saturday and let you know how I get on..
Dave
Today I managed to get to the Airport (supposedly for a lesson but the weather thought different!) and my instructor took me through it step by step. At last I reckon I can see the light!
I will be going through the confuser questions either tomorrow night or saturday and let you know how I get on..
Dave
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I've gone up the wrong taxiways at most airports I've been to, including the one I am based at, but that's OK. It's in the air one must not get lost 
and I never have, not even for a moment.
and I never have, not even for a moment.
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The strange thing is, I have never had any problem understanding the wind side of the E6B at all.
I have a background in maritime navigation. To set a course while compensating for current, what we would do is draw, from whereever we were, one hours worth of "current" on the map. Also from our present location we would draw the line that we would want to sail over the ground. From the end of the "current" line, we would measure a length equal to our speed through the water, back to the line we wanted to sail. This gives you the famous triangle of velocities and with that the heading to steer and the speed across the ground. (Boy, I wish this forum would do pictures!)
When starting in aviation I tried to do the same thing on my aviation map but quickly realised that both aircraft speed and wind speed ("current") are an order of magnitude higher than a typical ships speed and current, and would quickly take your drawing off the map. So you use the E6B for the exact same thing, but the E6B is designed so that your triangle of velocities will always fall within the boundaries of the E6B:
The rotating thingy on top is going to contain the wind, with line from the dot you place, to the center representing the wind vector. Your present position is the "zero point" on the sliding thingy. You rotate the rotating thingy so that your intended track lines up with the centerline of the sliding thingy and you slide the sliding thingy so that your true airspeed matches with the beginning of your wind vector (the dot). Your triangle of velocities will now be from the zero point (bottom of the sliding thingy) to the dot your place (representing your true heading & true airspeed), then to the center of the rotating thingy (representing the wind vector), then to back to the zero point on the sliding thingy (this line represents your true track & groundspeed). Very easy to see if you take the whole E6B (both the rotating and the sliding thingy, and the housing, and rotate it so that the N is on top. Put it on your map and you can see what you're doing.
Note: I know there's also the reverse way of doing things, where the wind vector goes from the center to the dot instead of the other way around. Same principle applies, just a slightly different technique. Use whatever your FI told you to.
And the other side is indeed just a circular sliderule with a few common markings for typical aviation calculations. If you don't know how a sliderule works, then make a list of the common aviation calculation numbers, and use a regular pocket calculator. Nothing magic about the E6B in this respect.
Now I only have to find an E6B which contains the specific gravity for Jet-A in addition to Avgas, then I can use it for everything!
I have a background in maritime navigation. To set a course while compensating for current, what we would do is draw, from whereever we were, one hours worth of "current" on the map. Also from our present location we would draw the line that we would want to sail over the ground. From the end of the "current" line, we would measure a length equal to our speed through the water, back to the line we wanted to sail. This gives you the famous triangle of velocities and with that the heading to steer and the speed across the ground. (Boy, I wish this forum would do pictures!)
When starting in aviation I tried to do the same thing on my aviation map but quickly realised that both aircraft speed and wind speed ("current") are an order of magnitude higher than a typical ships speed and current, and would quickly take your drawing off the map. So you use the E6B for the exact same thing, but the E6B is designed so that your triangle of velocities will always fall within the boundaries of the E6B:
The rotating thingy on top is going to contain the wind, with line from the dot you place, to the center representing the wind vector. Your present position is the "zero point" on the sliding thingy. You rotate the rotating thingy so that your intended track lines up with the centerline of the sliding thingy and you slide the sliding thingy so that your true airspeed matches with the beginning of your wind vector (the dot). Your triangle of velocities will now be from the zero point (bottom of the sliding thingy) to the dot your place (representing your true heading & true airspeed), then to the center of the rotating thingy (representing the wind vector), then to back to the zero point on the sliding thingy (this line represents your true track & groundspeed). Very easy to see if you take the whole E6B (both the rotating and the sliding thingy, and the housing, and rotate it so that the N is on top. Put it on your map and you can see what you're doing.
Note: I know there's also the reverse way of doing things, where the wind vector goes from the center to the dot instead of the other way around. Same principle applies, just a slightly different technique. Use whatever your FI told you to.
And the other side is indeed just a circular sliderule with a few common markings for typical aviation calculations. If you don't know how a sliderule works, then make a list of the common aviation calculation numbers, and use a regular pocket calculator. Nothing magic about the E6B in this respect.
Now I only have to find an E6B which contains the specific gravity for Jet-A in addition to Avgas, then I can use it for everything!
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I never had any problems using the CRP for wind calcs either. It is the additional iterative step(s) that most PPLs (incl. myself) were never taught correctly, and I believe those steps are avoided by using it in a particular way. But unless you are flying a 70kt plane in a 30kt crosswind, the iterative steps are worth a couple of degrees at most - enough to fail the exam (because the questions are deliberately set to trap you) but not relevant to flying for real since nobody can hold a heading that close, the DI is too far off, and the winds aloft forecast error usually makes a mockery of the whole thing anyway.
BP - in a boat you have a table to work on, loads of time, and a nice woman in a Baywatch swimsuit who brings you a cup of tea
BP - in a boat you have a table to work on, loads of time, and a nice woman in a Baywatch swimsuit who brings you a cup of tea
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With regular usage I was always much faster on the whizzwheel than with a Calculator, and now I have to re-learn it 17 years later it is all coming back very quickly. For ease of use, I marked mine with pairs of different coloured arrows for Fuel Burm, speed, etc and then could just line up the arrows instantly and read.
For instance: if we were asked to divert to an accident and I needed to check we had the range to pick up the wounded and take them to Hospital, I could check the guages for fuel content, line up the orange arrows for fuel burn rate and read off the flying time to min fuel, then line up the green arrows for speed and read off what distance we could cover. Much quicker than typing it into a Calculator! (and typing this!)
For instance: if we were asked to divert to an accident and I needed to check we had the range to pick up the wounded and take them to Hospital, I could check the guages for fuel content, line up the orange arrows for fuel burn rate and read off the flying time to min fuel, then line up the green arrows for speed and read off what distance we could cover. Much quicker than typing it into a Calculator! (and typing this!)
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Am I just odd in finding the CRP-1 easy and intuitive? And I'm only 30-something, so I didn't learn slide rules at school (though I do have A level maths).
I wouldn't use it in the air, though. To be honest, working with the 1/6ths rule provides a result which is as accurate as I can fly anyway!
Tim
I wouldn't use it in the air, though. To be honest, working with the 1/6ths rule provides a result which is as accurate as I can fly anyway!
Tim
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IO540 - Not in the (open) boats I used to sail in. Granted, you do have more space in a boat, but in all of the aircraft I've flown in so far, the charts have never blown out of my hands or been soaked with rain. The only time I had a proper nav table to work on (rented yacht on a school trip), I tried to do the nav but I got seasick before finishing all the calculations. I was back on top in the nick of time... And I was the best of the lot. The girls (in sailing suits, not swimsuits) didn't even dare to come down.
tmmorris - I agree. The one in sixth rule, "I follow roads", and the length of my thumb from nail to first joint is 10 miles or five minutes (@ 115 knots). Close enough.
tmmorris - I agree. The one in sixth rule, "I follow roads", and the length of my thumb from nail to first joint is 10 miles or five minutes (@ 115 knots). Close enough.
