90 days rule : clarification needed please

[alexka]

Do takeoffs and landings at the time when pilot was still on PPL training count for 90 days rule? Just completed my PPL and wondering if I am allowed to take a passenger. Looking at official text, it seems to be OK, since indeed I made 3 takeoff and landings on the same aircraft type within last 90 days; but just to make sure I haven't missed something which says that these are not valid as long as the pilot did not have a license yet.

Thanks All
Alex

[Mark 1]

No tricks or gotchas, they all count.

Only proviso is that you were the "sole manipulator of the controls" for said events.

[chaders]

So does this mean it must be logged as P1 or are the dual take off and landings in the latter part of the course allowed. Obviously at this stage of the course the instructor doesn't 'manipulate the controls' but is there.

I've just re-validated my PPL after 14 years away and there was no requirement for solo time during the course only 'Training necessary to pass the skills test'. I passed the skills test 1st attempt after 15 hrs. But obviously only the passed skills test is logged as P1.

Just needing to know if I'll need to do some flying on my own before I treat the missus.

Thanks in advance.

[Shunter]

Doesn't matter whether it was PUT or P1. If you did the take-offs and landings you're fine.

[Mark 1]

Actually, the passed skill test is logged as P1S - about the only time you'll use that capacity on a single pilot aeroplane.
Put take offs and landings all count for the 90 day rule if they were un-assisted.
Of course, other than following accidents and misdemeanours, it's completely un-policed.

[chaders]

Cheers Gents,

Actually, the passed skill test is logged as P1S

Yep my mistake there.

Thanks for the other information there. Just wanted to check. Before I drag my wife upto the field with me.

Regards.

[Nashers]

from what i understand P1 and P1S are more or less taken for the same value. im sure for your skills test you would have to have done a glide, flappless, normal and bad weather circut so thats 4 landings. but im not sure if they need to be full stops. as someone already said its not realy looked at unless u get in trouble.

[Johnm]

Who told you touch and goes don't count??

The only criterion is that you must have made three take offs and three landings as sole manipulator of the controls in the last 90 days. If you want to carry passengers at night one of the take offs and one of the landings must have been at night.

It is true that touch and goes don't count for establishing the night qualification in the first place.

[Whirlygig]

Just an aside for those who have just recently got their PPL; you can't take passengers until you have the grubby grey/grubby brown wallet in your grubby mitt!!!

In the period between skills test and licence issue, your are still technically a student so, you can go solo and SFH but on your instructor's ticket!

Cheers

Whirls

[Mark 1]

Rotorblast - you may care to let us know where you got that definition from as neither JAR-FCL 1.026 or ANO schedule 8 require full stop landings, just 3 take-offs and 3 landings.

They do specifically specify full stop landings for qualifying x-countries and night qualification requirements, but not for recency requirements for carriage of passengers. I believe rotary wing requirements are worded a bit differently.

[S-Works]

Quote:
Who told you touch and goes don't count??

For recent flight experience (90 day rule) a Touch and Go doesn't count as landing or take off.

To be legal, each landing must be a Full Stop Landing !!

Example: if you (sole manipulator of the flight controls, from kick the tire and light the fire until shutdown) make XX Touch and Goes, you may only log 1 take off and 1 landing.

By knowing the rules and definitions

Then can I suggest that rather than winking and trying to intimate that you know the rules you actually go out and learn them......

[charliegolf]

So using this logic:

By knowing the rules and definitions

anyone using an AFE type logbook, and using the TO and Ldgs columns is at least wrong, at worst, illegal. (Cos we all count T and Gos. Don't we?)

Don't think so.

CG

[selfin]

No requirement stated for any of these to be full-stops (except as pointed out the regulation covering NQ training).

The US regulations, FAR 61.57(a), are slightly different and do require full-stops some of the time:

• Day - tailwheel aeroplanes only
• Night - all aeroplanes (and they require three instead of one.)

NPA17b (cf EU-FCL) does not introduce a full-stop component, but increases the scope to read "...in the preceding 90 days at least 3 takeoffs, approaches and landings as pilot flying in an aircraft..."

[Shunter]

Touch and Go's don't count !

Bollocks. The only time you can't get away with a touch and go is during the night qualification training which does specify full-stop landings.

If I hadn't flown for 90 days, it would be 100% legal and acceptable to go and do 3 circuits with touch and goes, then collect the Mrs and go flying. If you disagree, please post the relevant text from LASORS. You'll be looking for a fair old while though, because it doesn't exist.

[Brighton Pilot]

When I passed my GST my examiner told me that i was also 90 day current as I did to touch and goes and a full stop landing.

When I revalidated (28 day check) 2 touch and go and a full stop got me my 90 day as well

[robdesbois]

Having just passed my skills test I asked this very question to my examiner (also the CFI of my club) and he said that for the 90-day rule T&Gs are fine.

Agree with what people are saying on LASORS and logbooks - T&Gs count unless "full stop" is specifically noted.

--rob

[9v-SKA]

Just a question. Do I log my flight test under PIC or dual flying time? I forgot to fill that in and now I've lost contact with my instructor.

[robdesbois]

9v-SKA,

If a JAA PPL then it is P1/US (under supervision). Ditto SoCal App's surprise....

--rob

[9v-SKA]

Thanks guys for your replies. But I got my license from CASA. I think I should post in D&G Zone instead.