AOPA membership
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AOPA membership
Having obtained my PPL, I'm being invited by AOPA to upgrade my current (free) student membership which I took out when I started flying to full membership (£72pa).
Before I sign on the dotted line, I just wanted to ask what value people get from their membership, particularly if like me you don't own an aircraft or work (yet) in the industry?
Many thanks,
HW
Before I sign on the dotted line, I just wanted to ask what value people get from their membership, particularly if like me you don't own an aircraft or work (yet) in the industry?
Many thanks,
HW
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AOPA will tell you that they are the only professional organisation campaigning for GA in the Halls of Power, and that they need members paying their subs in order to make this representation possible.
There is a lot of substance to this claim, as the Govt and CAA want a single voice for GA and see AOPA as a good contact.
However, personally speaking, I don't find it an organisation that I find does a lot for me personally compared with others, such as the PFA and BGA.
AOPA also has a rather sniffy attitude to these other organisations and has kept away from the GA Alliance, which most others have joined.
My own view is that AOPA needs a management shake-up and to start being seen as being relevant to us. Its no good just telling us that £70 per year is needed to gain political representation - that sounds like money for jollies.
An example. Last year AOPA tried to organise a fly-in at Old Sarum. Landings weren't free and AOPA asked for £20 per head towards the cost of the BBQ. It was cancelled due to lack of interest. More a lack of understanding of how fly-ins work.....!
There is a lot of substance to this claim, as the Govt and CAA want a single voice for GA and see AOPA as a good contact.
However, personally speaking, I don't find it an organisation that I find does a lot for me personally compared with others, such as the PFA and BGA.
AOPA also has a rather sniffy attitude to these other organisations and has kept away from the GA Alliance, which most others have joined.
My own view is that AOPA needs a management shake-up and to start being seen as being relevant to us. Its no good just telling us that £70 per year is needed to gain political representation - that sounds like money for jollies.
An example. Last year AOPA tried to organise a fly-in at Old Sarum. Landings weren't free and AOPA asked for £20 per head towards the cost of the BBQ. It was cancelled due to lack of interest. More a lack of understanding of how fly-ins work.....!
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Why don't you join for 12 months and if you don't think it value for money not renew next year?
Surely your own experience based on a year's paid subscription is worth considerably more to you than other people's opinions...
Surely your own experience based on a year's paid subscription is worth considerably more to you than other people's opinions...
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Why don't you join for 12 months and if you don't think it value for money not renew next year?
Surely your own experience based on a year's paid subscription is worth considerably more to you than other people's opinions
I am not sure that joining AOPA UK is going to result in any detectable "experience", positive or negative, on the part of the subscriber.
The only way we can judge these GA lobby groups is according to the results they have achieved, or claimed to have achieved. Sometimes, they claim to achieve something when in fact a lot of the work has been done by others.
And it's not easy for an individual to make this judgement. All one has to go on is what appears in their newsletters, in the press, etc. AOPA do send out a magazine (GASIL or GASCO?) but my recollection of it is that the contents was uninteresting and often patronising.
Personally I would join AOPA (for the general work they do around the UK) and PPL/IR (for work on the more advanced - particularly IFR - side of GA).
Surely your own experience based on a year's paid subscription is worth considerably more to you than other people's opinions
I am not sure that joining AOPA UK is going to result in any detectable "experience", positive or negative, on the part of the subscriber.
The only way we can judge these GA lobby groups is according to the results they have achieved, or claimed to have achieved. Sometimes, they claim to achieve something when in fact a lot of the work has been done by others.
And it's not easy for an individual to make this judgement. All one has to go on is what appears in their newsletters, in the press, etc. AOPA do send out a magazine (GASIL or GASCO?) but my recollection of it is that the contents was uninteresting and often patronising.
Personally I would join AOPA (for the general work they do around the UK) and PPL/IR (for work on the more advanced - particularly IFR - side of GA).
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Cheers IO540 - a helpful response.
I guess like anything in life what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.... My 'experience' of AOPA boils down to receipt of the magazine and a monthly lottery donation. I don't mind championing the cause of GA in this country, but may find some other way of investing my £72 for the priviledge.
HW
I guess like anything in life what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.... My 'experience' of AOPA boils down to receipt of the magazine and a monthly lottery donation. I don't mind championing the cause of GA in this country, but may find some other way of investing my £72 for the priviledge.
HW
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There's a relevant thread on the AOPA discussion board, entitled "Membership - What can AOPA do for you?"
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I am a member and I personally dont get much from them in material sense . However they are a voice for GA and I feel personally that should be supported. On another sense I recently had the misfortune of commiting a grave offence of infringing some rather important airspace . THE AOPA will provide legal advice etc etc as a member , this may well prove to be invaluable but watch this space
Last edited by maxdrypower; 16th Mar 2007 at 20:42.
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Does UK AOPA provide free legal representation and, if so, how exactly is this limited?
I am a member of US AOPA, which is worth it for the magazine (a very modern mag, nothing like the UK stuff) which I read alongside the U.S. "Flying" mag, and for the access to their staff on questions on FAA rules. But then I fly under "N" so it makes sense.
I'd like to think that UK AOPA is strongest in local lobbying against airfield closures and such like. Once you move outside specific issues behind which all of GA would be united anyway, it gets more debatable.
I don't wish to reopen a rather tired debate which has been done to death many times but UK AOPA has long been suspected by many to be primarily a voice for the UK flight training business. This was wrapped up with a very ambivalent attitude to N-reg/FAA operations in the UK, which are for obvious reasons almost universally hated by UK flying schools. However, AOPA has recently been firmly (at least, overtly) in support of N-reg and that's a big plus. They are firmly against a Euro-wide "recreational" (i.e. sub-ICAO) PPL as proposed by EASA and I am not sure what to think of this position one way or the other; personally I don't want the IFR ops to get screwed. I am sure 99% of UK PPLs don't give a damn about flying IFR abroad.
I am a member of US AOPA, which is worth it for the magazine (a very modern mag, nothing like the UK stuff) which I read alongside the U.S. "Flying" mag, and for the access to their staff on questions on FAA rules. But then I fly under "N" so it makes sense.
I'd like to think that UK AOPA is strongest in local lobbying against airfield closures and such like. Once you move outside specific issues behind which all of GA would be united anyway, it gets more debatable.
I don't wish to reopen a rather tired debate which has been done to death many times but UK AOPA has long been suspected by many to be primarily a voice for the UK flight training business. This was wrapped up with a very ambivalent attitude to N-reg/FAA operations in the UK, which are for obvious reasons almost universally hated by UK flying schools. However, AOPA has recently been firmly (at least, overtly) in support of N-reg and that's a big plus. They are firmly against a Euro-wide "recreational" (i.e. sub-ICAO) PPL as proposed by EASA and I am not sure what to think of this position one way or the other; personally I don't want the IFR ops to get screwed. I am sure 99% of UK PPLs don't give a damn about flying IFR abroad.
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This discussion comes up every once in a while and usually gets very mixed responses.
I'm an AOPA member and I believe they do huge amounts for GA in the UK and that every UK PPL should consider joining if they can. But as you've seen, others are less enthusiastic and some are very anti-AOPA.
By its nature, a fair amount of their work involves banging heads against brick walls but sometimes the walls give in first and we all benefit as a result. If you've had a year's free membership, you'll have seen their magazine and hence information about the work they do. I think what they do is valuable so am happy to contribute my 70 quid or so to help them to continue their work.
At a more personal level, it's also reassuring that should I fall foul of the CAA's enforcement dept. (heaven forbid) there's an organisation that I can turn to for help and advice (and a good track record for sorting things out).
Mark
I'm an AOPA member and I believe they do huge amounts for GA in the UK and that every UK PPL should consider joining if they can. But as you've seen, others are less enthusiastic and some are very anti-AOPA.
By its nature, a fair amount of their work involves banging heads against brick walls but sometimes the walls give in first and we all benefit as a result. If you've had a year's free membership, you'll have seen their magazine and hence information about the work they do. I think what they do is valuable so am happy to contribute my 70 quid or so to help them to continue their work.
At a more personal level, it's also reassuring that should I fall foul of the CAA's enforcement dept. (heaven forbid) there's an organisation that I can turn to for help and advice (and a good track record for sorting things out).
Mark
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As with most things in the UK - cost.. I am surprised to read that your AOPA UK Membership is 72 pounds..
Here in the US AOPA membership is just $39 per year - and I reckon that we get a good service from AOPA here in the US when it comes to lobbying Congress etc..
Bearing in mind $39 is only around 21 pounds..... that makes your 72 quid damn expensive.
Here in the US AOPA membership is just $39 per year - and I reckon that we get a good service from AOPA here in the US when it comes to lobbying Congress etc..
Bearing in mind $39 is only around 21 pounds..... that makes your 72 quid damn expensive.
Let me see... AOPA US has 100 times more members than AOPA in the UK. AOPA in the UK pays a franchisee fee to AOPA US for use of the name. The cost of living in the UK is roughly twice the cost of living in the USA. Trying to compare prices with the US is like comparing apples and pears.
AOPA US does indeed do a very good job of lobbying in the US but they have some powefull backers. GA in the US is not seen as a righ mans hobby it is seen as core to the fabric of the country and very powefull people in the US use GA. The US is still facing some massive changes, despite the best efforts of AOPA US things will not remain free. I did a bit of work recently with Tom Horne reviewing the changes and his article doing a comparison.
AOPA in the UK is one full time employee and and a part timer plus a lot of us as volunteers. Even with minimal staff representation by AOPA in Europe is expensive. This is where the fees go. AOPA are making in roads both in representing GA and listening to the members.
Personally I am both an AOPA member and as an IR holder a member of PPL/IR.
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I would join the PFA, BMAA or BGA before AOPA as in my view it has a record of being more an industry orientated body; perhaps at the expense of the grass roots aviator.
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I'm a member of both PFA and AOPA UK. They do very different jobs.
The biggest sin AOPA UK are guilty of is a failure to adequately explain what they do. "News from AOPA" in Pilot Magazine goes a little way toward redressing the balance.
Sitting in committee in Europe is sadly becoming more and more important and I don't think anyone does a better job of that on your behalf (whether you're a member or not) than AOPA UK.
If you look at the thread referred to above, particularly the post at the top of this page and my reply below it you'll see why there is the huge disparity in membership costs between AOPA US and AOPA UK.
If you look at this page you'll see where the membership fees go in terms of European representation.
Here's a quote for you
As has been said earlier in this thread, AOPA is the organisation the regulators tend to pay heed to.
There's a discussion forum at www.joinaopa.com please join in!
The biggest sin AOPA UK are guilty of is a failure to adequately explain what they do. "News from AOPA" in Pilot Magazine goes a little way toward redressing the balance.
Sitting in committee in Europe is sadly becoming more and more important and I don't think anyone does a better job of that on your behalf (whether you're a member or not) than AOPA UK.
If you look at the thread referred to above, particularly the post at the top of this page and my reply below it you'll see why there is the huge disparity in membership costs between AOPA US and AOPA UK.
If you look at this page you'll see where the membership fees go in terms of European representation.
Here's a quote for you
In 1964 IAOPA was accepted as the sole general aviation observer to ICAO proceedings, a distinction the organization maintains to this day. In addition to regular participation at ICAO headquarters and regional meetings, IAOPA represents the interests of general aviation in the European Union, Eurocontrol, European Civil Aviation Conference and Joint Aviation Authorities.
There's a discussion forum at www.joinaopa.com please join in!
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"In 1964 IAOPA was accepted as the sole general aviation observer to ICAO proceedings, a distinction the organization maintains to this day. In addition to regular participation at ICAO headquarters and regional meetings, IAOPA represents the interests of general aviation in the European Union, Eurocontrol, European Civil Aviation Conference and Joint Aviation Authorities."
Mike
AOPA UK seem to have taken its role a bit too much for granted. Compared with the BGA, PFA and GA Alliance they are not on my horizon. The magazine seems to be a travelogue for Martin Robinson to tell us where he has been, and the great and the good he has met.
I have sat through presentations from Martin representing AOPA UK and fro Roger Hopkinson of the GA Alliance, and though Martin made good political points, Roger was inspirational and addressed the issues that matter to me.
True, sitting in committees is tedious and lots of work, but I have the genuine feeling that AOPA needs to work with the other GA groups much more closely. I really do wonder if the reason that AOPA UK doesn't do this is because they crave the lead role, and not because it is necessarily the best way.
For example, I have still not seen anything from AOPA on the Mode S issue to compare with the work done by the PFA and BGA. AOPA might well be doing good things behind the scenes, but I see no sign of that.
I was at the CAA conference in November and Martin Robinson in the chair of the 'Hot Topics' session stopped the Mode S discussion in the middle of the most interesting part of the day. He was the least impressive of the GA reps on the day, and, forgive me for saying this, appeared to be a CAA stooge.
Mike
AOPA UK seem to have taken its role a bit too much for granted. Compared with the BGA, PFA and GA Alliance they are not on my horizon. The magazine seems to be a travelogue for Martin Robinson to tell us where he has been, and the great and the good he has met.
I have sat through presentations from Martin representing AOPA UK and fro Roger Hopkinson of the GA Alliance, and though Martin made good political points, Roger was inspirational and addressed the issues that matter to me.
True, sitting in committees is tedious and lots of work, but I have the genuine feeling that AOPA needs to work with the other GA groups much more closely. I really do wonder if the reason that AOPA UK doesn't do this is because they crave the lead role, and not because it is necessarily the best way.
For example, I have still not seen anything from AOPA on the Mode S issue to compare with the work done by the PFA and BGA. AOPA might well be doing good things behind the scenes, but I see no sign of that.
I was at the CAA conference in November and Martin Robinson in the chair of the 'Hot Topics' session stopped the Mode S discussion in the middle of the most interesting part of the day. He was the least impressive of the GA reps on the day, and, forgive me for saying this, appeared to be a CAA stooge.
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In the old days the PFA was 90% homebuilders and 10% everything else. In modern times this has changed and the PFA are as involved as any of the other organisations in protecting us from all sorts of threats. However, the aims of the PFA tend to be very clear. You can expect a concentration of effort on VFR issues, especially issues which threaten to increase cost or restrict access in some way.
By comparison AOPA trends to be supportive of its corporate members, which is a vital source of money for them.
I am a PFA member and an ex AOPA member. PFA membership is about £45 ish, so I would say this was good value. However the really important thing is JOIN AT LEAST ONE ORGANISATION. All the groups are short of cash and volunteers and there are more threats out there today than at any time since I started flying in 1984….
Rod1
By comparison AOPA trends to be supportive of its corporate members, which is a vital source of money for them.
I am a PFA member and an ex AOPA member. PFA membership is about £45 ish, so I would say this was good value. However the really important thing is JOIN AT LEAST ONE ORGANISATION. All the groups are short of cash and volunteers and there are more threats out there today than at any time since I started flying in 1984….
Rod1
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As with most things in the UK - cost.. I am surprised to read that your AOPA UK Membership is 72 pounds..
Here in the US AOPA membership is just $39 per year - and I reckon that we get a good service from AOPA here in the US when it comes to lobbying Congress etc..
Bearing in mind $39 is only around 21 pounds..... that makes your 72 quid damn expensive.
Here in the US AOPA membership is just $39 per year - and I reckon that we get a good service from AOPA here in the US when it comes to lobbying Congress etc..
Bearing in mind $39 is only around 21 pounds..... that makes your 72 quid damn expensive.
From my standpoint, the magazine is the only benefit although the renters insurance that AOPA offers looks attractive too..
