Save the Red Arrows Petition
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whilst in the royal air force I watched in startled disbelief as an f3 pilot began taxying with a ground crewman still in the nose undercarriage bay , totally disregarding the marshallers and wingmans signal to stop , the liney managed to get out before falling over and getting motored by the nosewheel. The pilot continued to taxy from a HAS without any guidance from groundcrew and went about his mssion . on landing he commented that if griound crew cant be arsed to get out the way then why should he be arsed to stop. many many crm and flight safety issues on the go there , the point is that this asshole is now a red ego . This was one of many incidents involving this pratt who thinks the sun shines out of his own arse . A bigger wanxxr you could never hope to meet . however does any of this matter when you are watching the reds on a clear summers day flying the most perfectly choreographed rouitnes on this planet and showing the world the british are still number one in the jet display stakes . I dont think it does . so long as he can put on a show like that as far as Im concerned he can be as much of a blithering foxtrotwit as he likes when he's on the ground I wouldnt choose to talk to him but I would definately choose to watch him fly.
This govt has managed to fxxk up just about everything else so why not get rid of the reds , their stupid enough to do it and if they did it would be a sad sad day
This govt has managed to fxxk up just about everything else so why not get rid of the reds , their stupid enough to do it and if they did it would be a sad sad day
To echo what maxdrypower said:
Mate of mine was an instructor at an airfield not a million miles from Camberley. In those days, the RA's had re-equipped with Hawks, but were still based at Kemble.
My mate sends up a student for his first solo late one summer sunday(but within notified ATZ hours), he has a handheld so he can monitor his student's RTF calls, and he stood out of doors to watch him fly the circuit. All went well until student turns base leg, when suddenly out of nowhere, just as the student throttles back and starts descending, these nine red painted Hawks appear flying east to west, pass UNDERNEATH the student and straight over the airfield at about 500ft! My instructor friend didn't hear them call on the RTF, nor did the FISO, so you can only assume they infringed the ATZ without clearance. Not surprisingly, the student was somewhat upset about this. My mate phoned me next day and explained what had happened asking me what action he should take, but as soon as I mentioned form-filling, he unfortunately lost interest.
Mate of mine was an instructor at an airfield not a million miles from Camberley. In those days, the RA's had re-equipped with Hawks, but were still based at Kemble.
My mate sends up a student for his first solo late one summer sunday(but within notified ATZ hours), he has a handheld so he can monitor his student's RTF calls, and he stood out of doors to watch him fly the circuit. All went well until student turns base leg, when suddenly out of nowhere, just as the student throttles back and starts descending, these nine red painted Hawks appear flying east to west, pass UNDERNEATH the student and straight over the airfield at about 500ft! My instructor friend didn't hear them call on the RTF, nor did the FISO, so you can only assume they infringed the ATZ without clearance. Not surprisingly, the student was somewhat upset about this. My mate phoned me next day and explained what had happened asking me what action he should take, but as soon as I mentioned form-filling, he unfortunately lost interest.
Wouldn't be the first time that they'd announced their intention to fly past an airfield and then flown past the wrong one, nor would it be the first time that they'd just done as they pleased without a thought for anyone else.
They are like butterflies really - they look very pretty flying around but get up close and they're just insects.
or 
, whichever you prefer.
They are like butterflies really - they look very pretty flying around but get up close and they're just insects.
or , whichever you prefer.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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J.A.F.O
You come across as increasingly bitter and twisted about the Reds.
Let it go mate.
They *do* have a reputation as being social disasters, and my sources are biased being of the Army variety - the Cyprus experiences being some of them (has anybody else heard about the synchro food poisoning a few months back?)
But, I would argue, that is the inevitable result of being part of a team that flies close formation aerobatics. As a nine ship. I've flown formation aerobatics; trust is everything, the team is everything....and everyone else, not part of the team, post sortie, might find themselves slightly excluded from the conversation for a while. I am a rank amateur - but to live that way for two or three years, totally focussed on the team - yes, I can see why the normal social skills might atrophy.
The second hand zone bust or safety related stories, are, frankly, beyond contempt. If you have confidence in these reports as safety issue, then get on with it and deal with them in a professional manner, even after all this time, under your real names....or you can keep bitching under a pseudonym. Your choice.
You come across as increasingly bitter and twisted about the Reds.
Let it go mate.
They *do* have a reputation as being social disasters, and my sources are biased being of the Army variety - the Cyprus experiences being some of them (has anybody else heard about the synchro food poisoning a few months back?)
But, I would argue, that is the inevitable result of being part of a team that flies close formation aerobatics. As a nine ship. I've flown formation aerobatics; trust is everything, the team is everything....and everyone else, not part of the team, post sortie, might find themselves slightly excluded from the conversation for a while. I am a rank amateur - but to live that way for two or three years, totally focussed on the team - yes, I can see why the normal social skills might atrophy.
The second hand zone bust or safety related stories, are, frankly, beyond contempt. If you have confidence in these reports as safety issue, then get on with it and deal with them in a professional manner, even after all this time, under your real names....or you can keep bitching under a pseudonym. Your choice.
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Thanks for the heads up Cricket23. 
Petition signed.
I'm a fan of the Arrows. I have enormous respect for anyone who is or has been in the team, and am happy to forgive them any understandable immodesty.
FL
Petition signed.
I'm a fan of the Arrows. I have enormous respect for anyone who is or has been in the team, and am happy to forgive them any understandable immodesty.
FL
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eharding , why do you assume that it wasnt dealt with professionally at the time , I didnt hide behind a pseudonym and I lodged all the required reports at the time using my real name and rank , which by the way is exactly the oppsoite to what you have just done , are you red you seem to have the necessary personality traits?
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Sad to learn of the further decline of the RAF.
The Red Arrows are an important exhibit to those of the supporting populace who know they need a highly efficient and potent Air Force which will help to provide security for their way of life.
The pilots assigned to formation aerobatic teams naturally think with pride that they have reached a pinnacle of handling highly manoeuverable aircraft at close quarters. As an old and humbled former Top Gun and Formation Aerobatic pilot I sympathise with the Red Arrows pilots who, whilst concentrating on their formation skills, are at the same time deteriorating in their primary role/s as fighter pilots or flying instructors.
If your Polies are intent on closing the window on the RAF expertise then it may be time again for Australia's RAAF to come to the aid of the RAF and share it's Roulettes or invite the RAF to enlist some contributions from other friendly Air Forces.
This needs to be done before we Aussies suffer a similar decline as a indirect result of the not-so-slow invasion we are suffering which we seem to have copied from you Brits.
The Red Arrows are an important exhibit to those of the supporting populace who know they need a highly efficient and potent Air Force which will help to provide security for their way of life.
The pilots assigned to formation aerobatic teams naturally think with pride that they have reached a pinnacle of handling highly manoeuverable aircraft at close quarters. As an old and humbled former Top Gun and Formation Aerobatic pilot I sympathise with the Red Arrows pilots who, whilst concentrating on their formation skills, are at the same time deteriorating in their primary role/s as fighter pilots or flying instructors.
If your Polies are intent on closing the window on the RAF expertise then it may be time again for Australia's RAAF to come to the aid of the RAF and share it's Roulettes or invite the RAF to enlist some contributions from other friendly Air Forces.
This needs to be done before we Aussies suffer a similar decline as a indirect result of the not-so-slow invasion we are suffering which we seem to have copied from you Brits.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Max,
Hardly, on both counts - given my Pprune username, you don't have to be Poirot to track down my identity....Clouseau, even, could manage it.
Hardly, on both counts - given my Pprune username, you don't have to be Poirot to track down my identity....Clouseau, even, could manage it.
I've more than had my say, as I am sure you will agree. I've certainly said more than intended about something which doesn't actually interest me that much.
Just before I disappear off I'd just like to say that I don't buy the "they're a top formation aerobatic team therefore are allowed to be ar$eholes" - I've spent time socially with the Frecce Tricolori and Patrouille de France, I've met many civvie pilots who have been in teams and are extremely talented and dedicated people and they were all really nice people (even Brian Lecomber when I'd just stolen the last fuel on the airfield on a Sunday and was off for a bimble and he was en-route to a display and had very little).
I'm happy with the "don't care whether they're to$$ers, they look pretty" argument, that's fine and dandy.
So, in summary:
most of the Reds that I've met while they were in the team were, in my opinion, to$$ers; many of them that I've met many years after their involvement were not.
They are extremely talented fliers.
Many extremely talented fliers are not to$$ers.
I haven't enjoyed watching the Reds for a long time.
If you enjoy it and want to go on enjoying it then I don't mind at all.
I didn't expect a little light hearted banter to develop into a long thread.
eharding - any safety related issues were dealt with at the time, I didn't mention any zone busts.
Personally I believe that at the moment there are many more important issues to be debated and many more important and urgent matters for my tax money to be spent on.
Sorry if my thoughts on the Reds have upset anybody or taken the thread away from its intended course.
BRL, you are right, it should be about:
Cheers all.
Just before I disappear off I'd just like to say that I don't buy the "they're a top formation aerobatic team therefore are allowed to be ar$eholes" - I've spent time socially with the Frecce Tricolori and Patrouille de France, I've met many civvie pilots who have been in teams and are extremely talented and dedicated people and they were all really nice people (even Brian Lecomber when I'd just stolen the last fuel on the airfield on a Sunday and was off for a bimble and he was en-route to a display and had very little).
I'm happy with the "don't care whether they're to$$ers, they look pretty" argument, that's fine and dandy.
So, in summary:
most of the Reds that I've met while they were in the team were, in my opinion, to$$ers; many of them that I've met many years after their involvement were not.
They are extremely talented fliers.
Many extremely talented fliers are not to$$ers.
I haven't enjoyed watching the Reds for a long time.
If you enjoy it and want to go on enjoying it then I don't mind at all.
I didn't expect a little light hearted banter to develop into a long thread.
eharding - any safety related issues were dealt with at the time, I didn't mention any zone busts.
Personally I believe that at the moment there are many more important issues to be debated and many more important and urgent matters for my tax money to be spent on.
Sorry if my thoughts on the Reds have upset anybody or taken the thread away from its intended course.
BRL, you are right, it should be about:
It would seem that Labour are looking at stopping funding to the Red Arrows.
If you would like to see them still fly, can you please follow the link to the petition on the 10 Downing St website. Thanks.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/
If you would like to see them still fly, can you please follow the link to the petition on the 10 Downing St website. Thanks.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/
They're mostly OK when you talk to them face to face, it's when they strap a Hawk to their backsides the trouble begins, and having handled them for 30 odd years I've talked to a lot of them. I was at Akrotiri with cadets one year when they arrived; within 3 days they'd pi$$ed off the entire station with their attitude, but it was great seeing the rivalry between them and the 'resident' target towing squadron.
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If they do disband i can imagine that RAF recruitment would dip, which is a bad thing as i hear most of the armed forces are down on men .
Just because you've reached the top of your career doesn't mean you can be an arrogant d*ck, unlike a lot of people in aviation.
I deal with millionaires and the odd billionaire on a daily basis. A lot of them are really nice guys , you get the odd t@sser but mostly they are confident, switched on and too the point.
Just because you've reached the top of your career doesn't mean you can be an arrogant d*ck, unlike a lot of people in aviation.
I deal with millionaires and the odd billionaire on a daily basis. A lot of them are really nice guys , you get the odd t@sser but mostly they are confident, switched on and too the point.
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Blimey! I had no idea how many people round here are so Anti-Red Arrows till I read this. Personally I would rather some people shut up and let their flying do the talking!?
All I can detect in this thread which is supposed to justify funding to help keep fellow aviators aloft (at what some would say is the pinnacle) is unjustified bitterness. As a Red pilot reading this (which I'm not!), I'd feel gutted. To have made it through the selection and worked hard to earn a place on the team, briefed and practiced every display till I was literally blue in the face and worked hard to be the most disciplined pilot I could ever hopedto be and then represent my country internationally.... Don't you think I'd deserve a little respect?
Arrogant because they only talk to other team members? Because they are highly focused individuals who spend all their time thinking sequences through with the team, talking them through, breathing the stuff, so they have little time for anything else. It's called pure dedication not arrogance. Appreciate it before that a$$h0Łe Blair get rid of the Reds and the like, just like he wants to be rid of the monarchy, we can all worship president Blair then!!! That man is pure poison for this country.
All I can detect in this thread which is supposed to justify funding to help keep fellow aviators aloft (at what some would say is the pinnacle) is unjustified bitterness. As a Red pilot reading this (which I'm not!), I'd feel gutted. To have made it through the selection and worked hard to earn a place on the team, briefed and practiced every display till I was literally blue in the face and worked hard to be the most disciplined pilot I could ever hopedto be and then represent my country internationally.... Don't you think I'd deserve a little respect?
Arrogant because they only talk to other team members? Because they are highly focused individuals who spend all their time thinking sequences through with the team, talking them through, breathing the stuff, so they have little time for anything else. It's called pure dedication not arrogance. Appreciate it before that a$$h0Łe Blair get rid of the Reds and the like, just like he wants to be rid of the monarchy, we can all worship president Blair then!!! That man is pure poison for this country.
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well said
"when I grow up I want to be a Red Arrows Pilot"
"Sorry son, they've been scrapped"
"OK, when I grow up I want to be an airline pilot."
"Sorry son, we've paid so much in council tax that we can't afford to sponsor you."
"Alrigt then, I'll get an airline to sponsor me!"
"Ever since the introduction of aviation taxes, all the airlines have based themselves abroad, and that includes their recruitment policies"
"Well, if I can't fly, I gues I'd like to be the captain of a big cruise liner"
"All foreign now son!"
"OK, I'll be a racing driver"
"Only if you like driving electric cars son!"
"A huntsman?"
"Forget it, son"
"A marksman?"
"Nope"
"Well, Dad, what can I be when I grow up?"
"A number, son, just a number"
"Sorry son, they've been scrapped"
"OK, when I grow up I want to be an airline pilot."
"Sorry son, we've paid so much in council tax that we can't afford to sponsor you."
"Alrigt then, I'll get an airline to sponsor me!"
"Ever since the introduction of aviation taxes, all the airlines have based themselves abroad, and that includes their recruitment policies"
"Well, if I can't fly, I gues I'd like to be the captain of a big cruise liner"
"All foreign now son!"
"OK, I'll be a racing driver"
"Only if you like driving electric cars son!"
"A huntsman?"
"Forget it, son"
"A marksman?"
"Nope"
"Well, Dad, what can I be when I grow up?"
"A number, son, just a number"
Welcome to PC Britain.
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I met them only once, in Malta. We had to turn our CJ around by nearly 180° to start the engines.(heavy winds)
Their aircraft were parked just a few meters away and the pilots hanged around, waited for their turn in the airshow that day. I walked over and asked them if they could give us a hand, which they did, actually 4 chaps came over and helped us. Then, beeing asked for, they gave us autograph cards and a booklet.
IMO - the ones that I met where real gentlemen and good ambassadors for Britain. Thats MY impression of them.
And we stayed until their display was over - stunning, best bits of flying that I saw for long, long time.
Their aircraft were parked just a few meters away and the pilots hanged around, waited for their turn in the airshow that day. I walked over and asked them if they could give us a hand, which they did, actually 4 chaps came over and helped us. Then, beeing asked for, they gave us autograph cards and a booklet.
IMO - the ones that I met where real gentlemen and good ambassadors for Britain. Thats MY impression of them.
And we stayed until their display was over - stunning, best bits of flying that I saw for long, long time.
