Front or rear?
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Front or rear?
An interesting thought.
I belong to an L 4 Cub group and fly from the rear seat when on my own ,due to weight and balance.
When I did my tail wheel conversion in a Super Cub I flew from the front seat both solo and with instructor.
When I did my flight check in the L 4 I flew from the back but found it a tad difficult with a head in the way.
I notice others in the L 4 group fly with the passenger in front.
Question.
To date, I have not taken a passenger in the L4 but if I did, I think I would prefer to fly from the front seat, providing the weight and balance is OK is there anything that should concern me?
The outlook from the front seat would be slightly different but I have managed that OK in the Super Cub
My first passenger would be a highly experienced tailwheel pilot although not a group member.
Lister
I belong to an L 4 Cub group and fly from the rear seat when on my own ,due to weight and balance.
When I did my tail wheel conversion in a Super Cub I flew from the front seat both solo and with instructor.
When I did my flight check in the L 4 I flew from the back but found it a tad difficult with a head in the way.
I notice others in the L 4 group fly with the passenger in front.
Question.
To date, I have not taken a passenger in the L4 but if I did, I think I would prefer to fly from the front seat, providing the weight and balance is OK is there anything that should concern me?
The outlook from the front seat would be slightly different but I have managed that OK in the Super Cub
My first passenger would be a highly experienced tailwheel pilot although not a group member.
Lister
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Fly a Cub from the rear, a Super Cub from the front. There's no need to do otherwise. The seating positions are designed that way. Especially, the front seat of an L4 is set very low, much lower than in the SC.
There is also not a lot of room in the front seat of the Cub if you are 6' tall. I always wondered about doing it but after sitting in the front seat decided I couldn't be bothered as the rear seat was much more comfy.
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The P1 seat on the L4 is the rear seat and it was designed that way. Simlarly the Supercub was designed/adapted to be flown P1 from the front seat. If nothing else I would be concerned about the insurance position if something went wrong with a non-qualified/qualifying person sitting in the P1 seat.
The instruments can be a bit difficult to see with a large front seat pax - you just have to ask them to lean/tilt their head to one side - otherwise I don't find much of a problem
The instruments can be a bit difficult to see with a large front seat pax - you just have to ask them to lean/tilt their head to one side - otherwise I don't find much of a problem
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I've never sat in the L4 front seat but agree the rear is quite comfy.
I didn't realise that there was an official pilot's seat in the Cub family,but do now!
So rear it is on the L4,solo or with passenger.
Out of interest I will check the height of the seats next time I'm over there.
I just checked the original Pilots Flight Ops instructions,and apart from stating solo from rear it does not mention pilot from rear at all times,also mentions observers "desk" behind rear seat so it is rather confusing.
Lister
I didn't realise that there was an official pilot's seat in the Cub family,but do now!
So rear it is on the L4,solo or with passenger.
Out of interest I will check the height of the seats next time I'm over there.
I just checked the original Pilots Flight Ops instructions,and apart from stating solo from rear it does not mention pilot from rear at all times,also mentions observers "desk" behind rear seat so it is rather confusing.
Lister
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As you say Lister, it only says Solo from rear. However many L4's have a radio in the rear. That might be a consideration, but then again if in class G it isn't a requirement
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This has been discussed in a similar manner on other threads - which seat does the commander sit in?
It really doesn't matter, provided the commander has sufficient sight of instruments and can control the aeroplane fully from that seat.
I have a Citabria which is soloed from the front, however, when I take people up, I usually fly from the rear seat as it gives a much better view etc and I can still do everything from there as that is where the instructor would sit.
It really doesn't matter, provided the commander has sufficient sight of instruments and can control the aeroplane fully from that seat.
I have a Citabria which is soloed from the front, however, when I take people up, I usually fly from the rear seat as it gives a much better view etc and I can still do everything from there as that is where the instructor would sit.
I read a bit about the L4 Cub when I owned one and vaguely recall that the USAAC originally used to fly solo from the front seat. I remember doing the W&B on mine for front seat solo and it was juuuuuuust inside the forward C of G limits (by about 0.001"). I would imagine that the weight of the radio etc aft of the C of G would have made the original military equipped ones less sensitive but I'm sure the USAAC discovered that they were still very tail-light on the ground. Going over a dandelion would make them stand on their snouts accompanied by the sound of swearing and splintering wood. Hence the sensible idea of soloing from the rear seat only was born.
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Whilst I have flown my J3 from the front seat (with a pax in the back) I much prefer to fly from the comfort of the rear seat.
I am not particularly tall, but I really didnt enjoy the experience of flying with my knees seemingly under my chin. That is without the gymnastics required to enter the front seat in the first instance.
With regard to the legal aspect, I am fairly certain that there is no designated P1 seat. After all, an instructor would occupy the front seat in a J3 / L4 and be in command.
SRD
I am not particularly tall, but I really didnt enjoy the experience of flying with my knees seemingly under my chin. That is without the gymnastics required to enter the front seat in the first instance.
With regard to the legal aspect, I am fairly certain that there is no designated P1 seat. After all, an instructor would occupy the front seat in a J3 / L4 and be in command.
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Hi Lister
A couple of things that I found:
There is not much room in the front for people with a larger tummy - and if you pax has one it can seriously stop you from having a fully flared landing - you just can't get the stick right back - and that last inch of rear stick movement is critical ! - in the cub it can mean a bouncy landing and a go around rather than a nice touch down at minimum speed.
The instruments can be totally obscured by a large pax and that means if you are interested in them (I never really was as I had a Garmin 196 in the back) it can be a problem.
You can fly solo from the front if you stick a counterweight in the back (I never did but saw a guy who filled a milk churn with concrete and used to strap it in the rear seat like a person through the handles on the sides) and fly from the front (not your syndicate I hasten to add). The real issue is that 'real' supercubs have fuel in the wings not the front tank like the L4 and this alters the CG and loading hence avoiding the fudging issue.
The L4 originally had only 1 seat as designed, and had a space in front to take the plotting board for artillery shoots - it only had a second seat as an afterthought - which is why the space is so tight - I think the phrase with regards to the second seat was 'fitted for, but not equipped with' as a rule.
But do fly from the front, it is good experience to be conversant with both seats - I was happy to fly from either seat as required. I'm sure someone in the syndicate would give you a couple of flights to be fully comfortable with both seats
Finally, I have never been really comfortable with sitting 2 feet behind 12 gallons of fuel and a hot exhaust so I am happier flying in the back seat ! (just in case)
I am assuming your first pax will be stiknrudda ? - that being the case you've no problems at all.
cheers and enjoy
Arc
A couple of things that I found:
There is not much room in the front for people with a larger tummy - and if you pax has one it can seriously stop you from having a fully flared landing - you just can't get the stick right back - and that last inch of rear stick movement is critical ! - in the cub it can mean a bouncy landing and a go around rather than a nice touch down at minimum speed.
The instruments can be totally obscured by a large pax and that means if you are interested in them (I never really was as I had a Garmin 196 in the back) it can be a problem.
You can fly solo from the front if you stick a counterweight in the back (I never did but saw a guy who filled a milk churn with concrete and used to strap it in the rear seat like a person through the handles on the sides) and fly from the front (not your syndicate I hasten to add). The real issue is that 'real' supercubs have fuel in the wings not the front tank like the L4 and this alters the CG and loading hence avoiding the fudging issue.
The L4 originally had only 1 seat as designed, and had a space in front to take the plotting board for artillery shoots - it only had a second seat as an afterthought - which is why the space is so tight - I think the phrase with regards to the second seat was 'fitted for, but not equipped with' as a rule.
But do fly from the front, it is good experience to be conversant with both seats - I was happy to fly from either seat as required. I'm sure someone in the syndicate would give you a couple of flights to be fully comfortable with both seats
Finally, I have never been really comfortable with sitting 2 feet behind 12 gallons of fuel and a hot exhaust so I am happier flying in the back seat ! (just in case)
I am assuming your first pax will be stiknrudda ? - that being the case you've no problems at all.
cheers and enjoy
Arc
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Hello Arclite,
I will probably fly from the back on all occassions.
Bit of drama today,did power checks and all OK so took off.
Almost immediately after climbing out developed a slight misfire which I thought might clear as the engine reached full operating temperature and also tried carb heat to no avail.
I stayed in the circuit but the misfire did not go away so landed.
After landing I did power check and the engine cut out on number one mag.
My first mini emegrency, but all went well.
First pax could be Stik , Rob or Alan Fines from Felthorpe.
Lister
I will probably fly from the back on all occassions.
Bit of drama today,did power checks and all OK so took off.
Almost immediately after climbing out developed a slight misfire which I thought might clear as the engine reached full operating temperature and also tried carb heat to no avail.
I stayed in the circuit but the misfire did not go away so landed.
After landing I did power check and the engine cut out on number one mag.
My first mini emegrency, but all went well.
First pax could be Stik , Rob or Alan Fines from Felthorpe.
Lister
