What would you do in this situatuion?
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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...or, in the case of a missing wing, observe in wonder as the chute becomes tightly wrapped around your now wildly tumbling aircraft, leaving you with a dilemma - which company to send an SMS snottogram to first? - because I'd imagine you'd be fairly pressed for time to get both texts done... 
Heh heh... well done!
VFE.
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Turn round in Your seat, stick the collumn up Your a*se & wait for the impact. It won't help Your survival chances but will confuse the sh*t out of the AAIB inspector
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I think the chances of survival from genuine terminal velocity of a falling human (about 100kt) are zero, unless one lands in a pile of hay or similar.
The chance of survival with a missing wing is close to zero from the accident stats but isn't quite zero. I agree the descent rate could well be 10,000ft/min (100kt VS) which will certainly kill you but there is the possibility of the airframe absorbing some of the energy if it happens to hit the "right" way. Especially over a forest.
I would stay in, switch to the fuel tank that is still present, and see if there is any control left whatsoever. I doubt there would be...
The chance of survival with a missing wing is close to zero from the accident stats but isn't quite zero. I agree the descent rate could well be 10,000ft/min (100kt VS) which will certainly kill you but there is the possibility of the airframe absorbing some of the energy if it happens to hit the "right" way. Especially over a forest.
I would stay in, switch to the fuel tank that is still present, and see if there is any control left whatsoever. I doubt there would be...
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Dangerous intellectual
Anyhow, Jen B has exclusive use of that particular trademark quote.
...or, maybe, it's like Robert Heinlein said. 'Reading is OK, provided you do it in private and wash your hands afterwards'.
TOO
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In a socially responsible on topic moment though: - if I had the option, I would always strap the parachute to me rather then the airframe.
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Tell us a bit about yourself Sainty43:
How old are you ? are you still at school? Are you a pilot? Are you a Troll?
Cheers
Cusco
(edited to say the above was prompted by the spelling, grammar and syntax of your original post)
How old are you ? are you still at school? Are you a pilot? Are you a Troll?
Cheers
Cusco
(edited to say the above was prompted by the spelling, grammar and syntax of your original post)
Aerobatic pilots can fly knife-edge (although I don't know how long for) so why couldn't you attempt the same thing? Your climb rate might not be very spectacular (or perhaps it will be spectacularly negative) but it could help.
In such a situation, given ones last few minutes/seconds on the earth, it's probably worth trying something new!
A
In such a situation, given ones last few minutes/seconds on the earth, it's probably worth trying something new!
A
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There was an accident a few years ago here in the SW, apologies if my story is "slightly" wrong or if this person was a friend of anyone, I read the AAIB report but cannot locate it now to post a link, basically I think he was dropping family off at Kemble, I "think" he was from Cornwall, but on landing at Kemble he managed to go off the runway and hit a hay bale?, after some checks of the aircraft he departed Kemble for home, he was near Thornbury when he told Filton radar of control difficulties, then all went quiet. They found the wreckage minus a wing, and they found his body several meters away from the wreckage, the AAIB said that the incident at Kemble had damaged the wing spar which led to the accident, and it looked like this poor chap edged his bets by jumping out, evidently he didn't make it.
The wreckage will absorb some impact for sure, but if you consider how flimsy these things are it is just going to crumble into a ball of mess, with you inside it, think of it on a larger scale when an airliner goes down, it is generally the velocity of the luggage compartments and roof collapsing under the G force when you hit the ground that kills you, i.e the bottom of the plane has stopped, and the rest is still moving towards the ground at a rate of knots.
That's my theory anyway, either way you are f"%@&d
The wreckage will absorb some impact for sure, but if you consider how flimsy these things are it is just going to crumble into a ball of mess, with you inside it, think of it on a larger scale when an airliner goes down, it is generally the velocity of the luggage compartments and roof collapsing under the G force when you hit the ground that kills you, i.e the bottom of the plane has stopped, and the rest is still moving towards the ground at a rate of knots.
That's my theory anyway, either way you are f"%@&d
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While this is probably not relevant to this topic (due to speeds involved), the crashworthiness of a modern design is very different to that of a lot of stuff that is still flying.
While most planes, including I believe microlights, are supposed to withstand the same +3.8G (or whatever it is), it's obvious that there is a vast difference between the cockpit strength of say a Cirrus or a TB20 (fully or partly composite), and that of most other stuff.
Most GA planes (designed in the 1950s) have the cockpit rigidity of a cheap caravan.
While most planes, including I believe microlights, are supposed to withstand the same +3.8G (or whatever it is), it's obvious that there is a vast difference between the cockpit strength of say a Cirrus or a TB20 (fully or partly composite), and that of most other stuff.
Most GA planes (designed in the 1950s) have the cockpit rigidity of a cheap caravan.
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My tuppenies worth would say that I doubt you would be in a state of mind to even consider that . If youve ever seen that video of the twin with half a wing plummeting to the ground (cant find it if anyone can post it that might be good) the aircarft falls like a posessed sycamore leaf. I suggest this is akin to a rather rapid spin , majority of us here have spun aircraft , consider when mid spin would you be able to unstrap undoe the door and actully jump out ? I would say that it was an impossibility, im open to contradiction here but please only from someone who has actually done it LOL
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...all of which reminds me of the strange events surrounding Peter Gibb & G-AVTN in 1975.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118207
It all went very quiet after the news they had discovered the C150 in the water in 2004 - was there ever a conclusive accident report published?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118207
It all went very quiet after the news they had discovered the C150 in the water in 2004 - was there ever a conclusive accident report published?
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Tell us a bit about yourself Sainty43:
How old are you ? are you still at school? Are you a pilot? Are you a Troll?
Cheers
Cusco
How old are you ? are you still at school? Are you a pilot? Are you a Troll?
Cheers
Cusco
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Stay in the aircraft.
At least that way all the mess ends up in one place.
You are gonna die, might as well be as tidy as possible.
Try not to scream like a girl on the radio
(unless you are a girl and fancy screaming of course).
At least that way all the mess ends up in one place.
You are gonna die, might as well be as tidy as possible.
Try not to scream like a girl on the radio
(unless you are a girl and fancy screaming of course).
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Personally, I would stay in the aircraft as it will absorb some energy as it hits the ground...it will be a lottery but still gives a chance providing the angle of impact isn't too great.
Maxdrypower, look at the recent mid air at malta (air racing event, dont know if it was the redbull one or not), close to the ground, all happened in a flash and still one of the pilots was able to unstrap, release the canopy, bail in an uncontrolled situation...by the time his plane hit water, his chute was only just opening! theirs a photo on airliners.net capturing the moment, I tried to find it...but thats a good example of how fast someone can react when in a life threatning situation. The guy would've had a milisecond ...
edit: found the pics:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1107079/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1108667/M/
Maxdrypower, look at the recent mid air at malta (air racing event, dont know if it was the redbull one or not), close to the ground, all happened in a flash and still one of the pilots was able to unstrap, release the canopy, bail in an uncontrolled situation...by the time his plane hit water, his chute was only just opening! theirs a photo on airliners.net capturing the moment, I tried to find it...but thats a good example of how fast someone can react when in a life threatning situation. The guy would've had a milisecond ...
edit: found the pics:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1107079/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1108667/M/
Last edited by wbryce; 28th Jan 2007 at 14:32.
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If you are in a lift or aircraft that is falling to the ground and you jumped just before hitting the bottom then it would make no difference to your impact speed (and thus nasty jerk and deceleration you will become subject to)
The only thing you will succeed in is accelerating the wreckage \ lift beneath you so it hits the earth slightly harder.
The interesting question is whether it is better to stick with the wreckage or not. I think it is immaterial. Whilst the wreckage IMHO WOULD provide some protection by absorbing the energy of impact it would also be a hinderance as it would add to the impact energies too.
I would rather be away from the aircraft simply for the fact that you stand a change of a soft landing and escape (i.e. into water) instead of being trapped inside some buckled wreckage that later ignites.
Note I'm not a very experienced aviator or analysts, just a simple physicists and so this might all be total rubbish.
The only thing you will succeed in is accelerating the wreckage \ lift beneath you so it hits the earth slightly harder.
The interesting question is whether it is better to stick with the wreckage or not. I think it is immaterial. Whilst the wreckage IMHO WOULD provide some protection by absorbing the energy of impact it would also be a hinderance as it would add to the impact energies too.
I would rather be away from the aircraft simply for the fact that you stand a change of a soft landing and escape (i.e. into water) instead of being trapped inside some buckled wreckage that later ignites.
Note I'm not a very experienced aviator or analysts, just a simple physicists and so this might all be total rubbish.
It all about momentum.
Momentum = Velocity X Mass, at terminal velocity, relative velocitys are 0, so mass is what we're interested in.
If you pushed off the plane body you would move upward with a ratio relative to the momentum of the plane and the momentum of you. If the plane is 20 times heavier than you, 5% of your push will go into moving the plane, and the other 95% will push you up.
If we work on this idea, if you push up at 3mph, you will slow by at 2.85mph, and the plane will speed up by 0.15mph.
If this weren't the case, wouldn't the earth move noticeably every time we jumped? (yes thechnicly the earth moves when we jump on it, but not like this)
If you did this at height, you'd probably be wasting your time, as the plane would slow down to it's terminal velocity, and you would speed up to yours (which I think is higher than the planes). You would need to do it right near ther ground, in which case you would be buggered anyway as you would be landing on the avaiation equivalent of a very hot cheese grater.
Best thing to do if a wing falls off? Impossible to know, so don't start with your algebra. Your either lucky or you ain't.
Chocks Away!
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A lot of interesting reply's! I suppose your right in saying there might be a little control left. If I lost say both wings I would probably jump from the aircraft. You would have so little control left, but depending on the amount of control I suppose I would stay in the aircraft. It would be scary as hell though I imagine!
Lee
Lee
T.
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Saying all this does anyone remember some years ago an incident involving a freight 707 . In this instance the wing caught fire or someother such nasties. They manegd to land the thing in switzerland I think .The photos show that the netire skin of the wing had gone and spars ribs etc etc were all exposed , no smooth surfaces remaining , however the jet flew and landed without any injuries to the crew. Pilot mag did a big story on it , horrendous piccies but hell of an airmanship story cant find it on any website but well worth reading if your interested