Quickies while Flying
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
From: essex
I didn't know you could get erasable water based marker pens - do they stay on quite well? (ie. does the mark stay on without being accidentally rubbed?)
WH Smith or any other similar store sells them right alongside the permanent markers (look and write exactly the same). The line can be accidentally "smudged" but from experience that is rare and does not cause me any problems (not easy to erase the complete track line).
Plus point is that you can easilywipe the chart after the trip without going in search of the meths.
WH Smith or any other similar store sells them right alongside the permanent markers (look and write exactly the same). The line can be accidentally "smudged" but from experience that is rare and does not cause me any problems (not easy to erase the complete track line).
Plus point is that you can easilywipe the chart after the trip without going in search of the meths.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
From: Up there somewhere
For those that insist on using OHP pens, all you really need is the orange or the white steadler eraser, sold in all good stationers. The orange one is harder to come by but its purpose in life is to remove OHP pen marks. Wow. Or just buy a chinagraph.
I personally use throwaway paper maps so have no need
I personally use throwaway paper maps so have no need
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,401
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
"I think the techy drawing clip will be best along with the bulldog clips as normal."
Not sure what you mean, mj. The top needs to have the same type of sprung clip as shown in my photo, so that it's easy to release the spiral, turn over a new page, then trap the spiral again. A bulldog clip is no good for that - either it's so tight to hold the book that it needs 2 hands to open, or it simply isn't up to the job of holding the book.
Not sure what you mean, mj. The top needs to have the same type of sprung clip as shown in my photo, so that it's easy to release the spiral, turn over a new page, then trap the spiral again. A bulldog clip is no good for that - either it's so tight to hold the book that it needs 2 hands to open, or it simply isn't up to the job of holding the book.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
You will still have your clip when I can find a supplier of them.
There were suggestions that to stop students charts disappearing down under the rudders or what ever they have on helicopters when the student has it on thier knee. A slide grip might help.
Must admit personally made them put it away so they couldn't feature crawl. Some sort of removable clip (instructors won't be wanting it) which could trap the chart but not be a fiddle to release it. The bull dog clips are used by people who don't know how to fold a chart properly. Soon as I saw them being used it was a cert that the diversion was going to need refolding of the chart in the air
There were suggestions that to stop students charts disappearing down under the rudders or what ever they have on helicopters when the student has it on thier knee. A slide grip might help.
Must admit personally made them put it away so they couldn't feature crawl. Some sort of removable clip (instructors won't be wanting it) which could trap the chart but not be a fiddle to release it. The bull dog clips are used by people who don't know how to fold a chart properly. Soon as I saw them being used it was a cert that the diversion was going to need refolding of the chart in the air
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 58
From: UK
Ah, MJ. Your last post has highlighted some of the subtle differences between the way that 'we' do it and 'you' do it. I certainly don't want to turn this into a 'us/them, rotary/fixed' issue (there's several threads worth of debate in that alone) but just to quickly summarise:
Boats and aeroplanes have rudders. We have tail rotor pedals! (Sorry but bit of a pet hate of 'ours').
'Feature/track' crawling isn't so verboten in helis. In certain circumstances, it should be positively encouraged.
I'm afraid that that's just wrong. It's a very acquired art to be able to fold a 1m x 1m CAA chart into a usable section that measures about 20cm x 20cm (and to be able to use both sides). There's no way of doing this without bulldog clips.
Also a 'trick' that I like to use but can be avoided by very careful folding of the chart. Bear in mind that we don't always have to find an airport for our diversion destination!
Essentially, most of these issues come down to the room available in an R22 cockpit ie not a lot. Remember that in flight we don't have access to rulers or whizzy wheels or even often pens; all things that you fixed wing chaps probably take for granted.
Is there anyway that you can go up for a quick spin in an R22 to see things from our perspective? (You're more than welcome to come up with me but you'll have to travel a long way south from Aberdeen!) Maybe even sitting in an R22 when it's on the ground might help...
I hope that this lot has been of help to you and really appreciate the work that you've put into this. I certainly sympathise with you for trying to design the perfect 'kneeboard'. Just look at the number already on the market but still we can't find one which really works...
B73
(Sorry but bit of a pet hate of 'ours').Essentially, most of these issues come down to the room available in an R22 cockpit ie not a lot. Remember that in flight we don't have access to rulers or whizzy wheels or even often pens; all things that you fixed wing chaps probably take for granted.
Is there anyway that you can go up for a quick spin in an R22 to see things from our perspective? (You're more than welcome to come up with me but you'll have to travel a long way south from Aberdeen!) Maybe even sitting in an R22 when it's on the ground might help...
I hope that this lot has been of help to you and really appreciate the work that you've put into this. I certainly sympathise with you for trying to design the perfect 'kneeboard'. Just look at the number already on the market but still we can't find one which really works...
B73
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
Its helped alot, it has been 4 years since I used an A5 knee board in anger. Or even put line on a chart. In fact my AA road map gets used more in the air than a chart. And thats only to find out what something is.
Its not really an effort to be honest, its just good fun. Even if I end up with a couple of kneeboads made, and my own A4 kneeboard for work it will be well worth it.
Got the none slip stuff today and boy is it none slip. There is zero chance of it moving on your leg. In fact if you were to wear shorts it could be rather painfull pulling your hairs out. And it is a cracking writing surface for a single sheet of paper.
Always willing to have a go with the darkside. If you let me know where you are I might be able to swing being rostered for a day charter near by. Hanging around a busy GA airfield is always better than watching telly in a hotel room.
Its not really an effort to be honest, its just good fun. Even if I end up with a couple of kneeboads made, and my own A4 kneeboard for work it will be well worth it.
Got the none slip stuff today and boy is it none slip. There is zero chance of it moving on your leg. In fact if you were to wear shorts it could be rather painfull pulling your hairs out. And it is a cracking writing surface for a single sheet of paper.
Always willing to have a go with the darkside. If you let me know where you are I might be able to swing being rostered for a day charter near by. Hanging around a busy GA airfield is always better than watching telly in a hotel room.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts Bay Colony
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Surely they can't both be "anti-torque" as on one hand (well, foot) you're using the torque to your advantage. "Torque control pedals" maybe?
(I was going to say that for students they're concentrating so much the pedals are probably better called "anti-talk pedals" but decided not to go there
)
(I was going to say that for students they're concentrating so much the pedals are probably better called "anti-talk pedals" but decided not to go there
)
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 58
From: UK
Well, technically, they are 'anti-torque device pedals' but that's all bit of a mouthful and the tail rotor is the anti-torque device in most helis so hopefully 'tail rotor pedals' will suffice!
Either which way, they ain't connected to a blooming rudder!!!
PS MJ - I'll be sending you a PM tomorrow.
Either which way, they ain't connected to a blooming rudder!!!
PS MJ - I'll be sending you a PM tomorrow.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 367
Likes: 1
From: South West UK
I've used this
www.flyboys.com/kneebwiteycl.html
for years in fast jets, light aircraft' warbirds etc. Works great, holds a standard spiral notebook and costs only $29, pretty chaep at the present dollar rate!
3 Point
www.flyboys.com/kneebwiteycl.html
for years in fast jets, light aircraft' warbirds etc. Works great, holds a standard spiral notebook and costs only $29, pretty chaep at the present dollar rate!
3 Point
