Pan Pan?
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,924
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From: UK
Would it have changed anything else?
Having said that, Pilots should never fear declaring any category of emergency for the right reasons, but financial consideration isn't one of them!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,547
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From: Dublin
Yes. ATC are required to file an MOR following any PAN message (not so with a routine diversion). This could lead to "slightly tight flight planning" etc attracting adverse comment from the CAA.
Having said that, Pilots should never fear declaring any category of emergency for the right reasons, but financial consideration isn't one of them!
Having said that, Pilots should never fear declaring any category of emergency for the right reasons, but financial consideration isn't one of them!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,924
Likes: 7
From: UK
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 762
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From: UK
PAN or MAYDAY
Just to pick up what niknak said and to relect some of the comments some of you have corerectly made about his IFR comment.
He also said about maybe declaring a MAYDAY, which I think is a little over the top.
Seeing as a MAYDAY is - ' I am in need of urgent assistance (OK) and I AM in imminent danger'.
Whereas; a PAN is' I am in need of urgent assistance and BUT I AM NOT in imminent danger'.
I am not sure that a mayday for approaching official night without a night rating is really necessary.
NIKNAK, if you are syill looking at this thread maybe you could clarify your comments on IFR inside CAS and the use of MAYDAY for this.
He also said about maybe declaring a MAYDAY, which I think is a little over the top.
Seeing as a MAYDAY is - ' I am in need of urgent assistance (OK) and I AM in imminent danger'.
Whereas; a PAN is' I am in need of urgent assistance and BUT I AM NOT in imminent danger'.
I am not sure that a mayday for approaching official night without a night rating is really necessary.
NIKNAK, if you are syill looking at this thread maybe you could clarify your comments on IFR inside CAS and the use of MAYDAY for this.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
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From: UK
Firstly, I have been put in my place by my good mate Chilli and rightly so!
James et al....
It entirely depends on your personal confidence in dealing with the pertaining situation, it's all very well being wise after the event but if you feel you need to get on the ground ASAP, declare a MAYDAY and we'll do the best we can for you.
There is absolubtly no shame whatsoever in admitting that you need help, , we will decide the level of emergency assistance required via well planned procedures and we can always upgrade or downgrade this as required.
That aside, given that a minor problem occassionaly develops into a more serious situation, fore armed is fore warned.
James et al....
It entirely depends on your personal confidence in dealing with the pertaining situation, it's all very well being wise after the event but if you feel you need to get on the ground ASAP, declare a MAYDAY and we'll do the best we can for you.
There is absolubtly no shame whatsoever in admitting that you need help, , we will decide the level of emergency assistance required via well planned procedures and we can always upgrade or downgrade this as required.
That aside, given that a minor problem occassionaly develops into a more serious situation, fore armed is fore warned.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,547
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From: Dublin
Seeing as a MAYDAY is - ' I am in need of urgent assistance (OK) and I AM in imminent danger'.
Whereas; a PAN is' I am in need of urgent assistance and BUT I AM NOT in imminent danger'.
Whereas; a PAN is' I am in need of urgent assistance and BUT I AM NOT in imminent danger'.
Not sure where you got your definations from.
From CAP413
a) Distress A condition of being threatened by serious and/or imminent danger and
of requiring immediate assistance.
b) Urgency A condition concerning the safety of an aircraft or other vehicle, or of
some person on board or within sight, but does not require immediate assistance.
1.2.2 The pilot should make the appropriate emergency call as follows:
a) Distress ‘MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY’
b) Urgency ‘PAN PAN, PAN PAN, PAN PAN’
of requiring immediate assistance.
b) Urgency A condition concerning the safety of an aircraft or other vehicle, or of
some person on board or within sight, but does not require immediate assistance.
1.2.2 The pilot should make the appropriate emergency call as follows:
a) Distress ‘MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY’
b) Urgency ‘PAN PAN, PAN PAN, PAN PAN’
dp
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Swanwick
Whilst the merits of decalring a Pan or Mayday are being batted around, please bear in mind that if you declare a Pan the ARCC will be informed of your predicament & a watching brief will begin.
If however you declare a Mayday, the ARCC will as a general rule, launch SAR assets towards the point at which you are requiring immediate assistance.
Diddley Dee
If however you declare a Mayday, the ARCC will as a general rule, launch SAR assets towards the point at which you are requiring immediate assistance.
Diddley Dee
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 762
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From: UK
PAN and MAYDAY
I got that definition from my Oxford ATPL notes. Those bas*ards have duped, conned and violated me with thier verbose and decietful ramblings.
Although, I believe the definition i put forward is down to semantics. I would not expect a student to reel me off the cap 413 definition. Although, I might pose that to them for a laugh to fill the foggy, groundschool days.
Although, I believe the definition i put forward is down to semantics. I would not expect a student to reel me off the cap 413 definition. Although, I might pose that to them for a laugh to fill the foggy, groundschool days.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 263
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From: Scotland
Although as dublin pilot mentioned, CAP413 states that a PAN PAN indicates immediate assistance is not required.....in reality you'll find that PAN PAN will invariably get you immediate attention, quieten down the frequency, and should set you up from some immediate help from ATC if you require it.
