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PPL Air Law, help please!

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Old 15th Dec 2006, 00:38
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Originally Posted by Whirlygig
An Air Traffic Controller will tell you to use a QNH of (for example) 1005 meaning the altimeter will read altitude about sea level. If the Controller says QFE 1005, your altimeter will read height above ground.

Whirls
Did you pass your aviation law exam then?
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Old 15th Dec 2006, 00:46
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Originally Posted by IO540
who have uploaded oil whilst travelling internationally, and some that have had repairs done internationally

How many people are going to be concerned with duty on oil?


If you have done repairs internationally, in what circumstances would the pilot be concerned with the duty on parts fitted?

All knowledge is potentially useful; the clear point here is that there is other stuff which would be of much more benefit to a private pilot instead.
An aviation law examination is a test of your knowledge of the rules regulations and procedures, not on what is going to useful on your next cross country flight. The role of the instructor is to concentrate on what is of most benefit to the pilot.

Examinations are supposed to be comprehensive tests of the ability to assimilate information as well as content knowledge.

Understanding the aim helps with the result, as in all instruction
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Old 15th Dec 2006, 06:52
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Examinations are supposed to be comprehensive tests of the ability to assimilate information...

Well, it's good to know I have been missing the point of learning all along.

Why not get the student to learn chess? Might be a good test for the ability to make enroute decisions?

Or learn Mongolian? Might be handy for doing the radio.

So far, nobody has answered any of my questions though.

Your first example, it is obviously going to be the N reg which is queried

I think that both F- and N-reg can be queried, in France. In Germany, D- and N-reg could be queried. Etc.

Outside the EU, I guess that any reg, local or foreign, can be queried under basic ICAO provisions but they don't have VAT then Which just shows how out of date (at best) and irrelevant (at worst) these exam questions are.

Last edited by IO540; 15th Dec 2006 at 08:06.
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Old 15th Dec 2006, 19:02
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Originally Posted by speedbird268
Q6. Is QNH given as

Flight level
Height
Altitude
Elev

NOW on this one i would say that well a qnh can be given below a FL and also you can set QNH to 1013 for a FL and it cant be elev so i went for height because if it was ALT then that would say that you cant use a 1013 qnh for a FL
This one has me slightly worried being a pilot myself.

QNH gives the barometric pressure at MSL at a given point. Now, you don't set 1013QNH to get FL. You set 1013mb on the altimeter sub-scale (it is not 1013QNH, but just 1013mb as it is used as a datum for FL given by ISA.

It is not height as that is QFE, which is the barometric pressure at ground level, thus giving you the 'height' above the ground.

QNH is the barometric pressure above sea level.

So, to recap, if you want to fly on flight levels (so you need to be above the transition altitude, in the uk this is typically 3000') you need to set 1013mb on the altimeter sub-scale, which then you are on flight level. Sorry if this seems complicated, im not the best at explaining things.

But no offence, looks like to me you need to get the Trevor Thom Air Law book and do some proper revision.
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Old 15th Dec 2006, 19:11
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Originally Posted by speedbird268
Q9. To maintain recency you have to do 3 t/offs and 3 landings
what is the time period
No, to maintain recency or to remain current as it is known, you need to do 12 hours flying per year minumum (I may have that slightly wrong).

However, if you want to fly with PAX (passengers), then you must have done at least 3 t/o and landing within 90 days.
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Old 15th Dec 2006, 19:14
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Originally Posted by speedbird268

Q1. in order to fly internationally, who do you need a licence issued by.

I said ICAO
To fly internationally, i think you need to have a licence that is to the standard of the state you are over flying, and you have to fly an aircraft that is registered in the same state as your licence, for example;

If you have a PPL issued in the UK, then you must fly a G-reg aircraft etc.
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Old 16th Dec 2006, 16:00
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International inspection rights and excise issues are probably important if a PPL wishes to exercise their right to fly internationally.

Living on an island where going "international" takes less than an hour (from the SE) it is probably prudent to know this stuff.

I can understand why the FAA PPL population couldn't give a **** though
But is it important at PPL level? I get in my plane, fly to france, have lunch, maybe top up with fuel, check the oil, maybe buy a litre if I need it, add a bit, take off and come home. I have already filed my FP's and any other documents required by the UK / France.

So I don't care about the duty on oil. As far as I'm concerned if a litre costs me 10 Euro, it costs me 10 Euro.

When someone is training for a PPL, why do they need to know this rubbis for an air law exam. It is not air law at all.....

PS I don't have an FAA PPL, I do have a JAR PPL though
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Old 16th Dec 2006, 16:02
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To fly internationally, i think you need to have a licence that is to the standard of the state you are over flying, and you have to fly an aircraft that is registered in the same state as your licence, for example;

If you have a PPL issued in the UK, then you must fly a G-reg aircraft etc.
Not strictly true......ICAO licences are ok. Go and ask the DGAC in France if they will accept an ICAO (FAA/ South Aftican etc...) licence in a G reg plane.....
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Old 16th Dec 2006, 16:42
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Go and ask the DGAC in France if they will accept an ICAO (FAA/ South Aftican etc...) licence in a G reg plane.....

Actually the DGAC has no say in this. The CAA decides what, if any, privileges an ICAO license has in a G-reg

And the CAA has decided it's every bit as good as a UK issued PPL.

I don't think the DGAC is as generous for its own (F-reg) planes.

But this is all practical stuff. One would never expect a PPL to learn anything practical.
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Old 16th Dec 2006, 20:02
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Originally Posted by IO540
One would never expect a PPL to learn anything practical.
Takeoff, S&L, landing, steep turns, stalling, navigation, some radio nav, 180 degree turns, forced landings, weather decisions, flight planning, landing, weight & balance, fuel calculations, radio use, taxiing, Captaincy.

Nah.

Nothing practical there at all.
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Old 17th Dec 2006, 06:13
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Originally Posted by SoCal App
Not to be pedantic but clearly from the start of this thread, some students are confused by this. QFE - height above the airfield in question - not simply height above ground. If you are 5 miles out over higher terrain..... Fortunately we don't use QFE in the US.
If such an ambiguity exists, then why do people use QFE?
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Old 17th Dec 2006, 06:55
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Because for countries without aerodromes at high elevations, it is perceived as being safer to know your height above the runway than your height above sea level (or rather, altitude).

I am astonished that anyone would be stupid enough to prepare for an exam using an out of date reference book. That's like using an old highway code before your driving test.....

Incidentally, 'recency' refers to the '90-day rule'. There is no definition of 'currency'.
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Old 17th Dec 2006, 07:01
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The problem with QFE is when doing a missed approach; you have to rewind the altimeter back to QNH for obstacle clearance / procedure altitudes and then wind it back again to QFE for the final.

It's easy to kill oneself; I did it a few times myself on a simulator.

That's why the rest of the world doesn't use QFE.

And if flying in VMC, there is arguably no need for an altimeter during terminal operations anyway.
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Old 17th Dec 2006, 12:27
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Which is why, when I was first an IRE, I used to take my candidates to Lulsgate. After an engine failure on the go-around, trying to reset the altimeter to QNH whilst following a MAP on 3-engines was always quite interesting for them....
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Old 18th Dec 2006, 01:49
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I am in aussie ,air law is really tricky!
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Old 18th Dec 2006, 07:09
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Because for countries without aerodromes at high elevations, it is perceived as being safer to know your height above the runway than your height above sea level (or rather, altitude).
Interesting.... Field elevation could change in a short distance so how would a person compensate for that when flying on a cross country? or is QFE only given for a particular "aerodrome"/airport?
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Old 18th Dec 2006, 16:02
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Ahh I see.. Thanks for that.. Makes sense now.... QFE doesn't seem to make a big difference...Probably helps because it avoids having to do FE+1000 feet everytime...
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Old 18th Dec 2006, 16:20
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In fact you can't wind the altimeter that far back anyway.

I recall there is a procedure for high altitude airports, say 10,000ft elevation. What is it?
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