IFR in France
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IFR in France
Hi all - I am planning a trip to La Rochelle in the next couple of weeks - As there are no airways that take me a sensible routing and most are higher than I would want to fly at this time of year due to Fz levels. Does anyone know if its OK to file off airways IFR in france (using semicircular alt's of course) or to just fly IFR at a suitable altitude without filing it and get radar cover as & when available as we do here sometimes?? I was also thinking of filing airways to get into the system then asking for a more direct routing and lower altitude once en-route.
Any comments appreciated!!
Any comments appreciated!!
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I haven't looked in detail at your particular routing. However, in France the airway MEAs are generally therefore a reason. To get your flight plan in the system it will need to pass CFMU so it will have to be 'reasonable'. It's just one of the challenges of winter flying w/o deice that you some times need to go VFR below the cloud layers.
Also at this time of year cloud layers tend to be thin so you have high chances of only a thin layer, hopefully above MSA and below freezing level
There is no such thing in France of the UK practice of 'deciding to be IFR' you are either on an IFR Flight Plan (either filed in advance of air filed) or you are VFR. (Also I assume you already know this but you will need a full IR for this)
Also at this time of year cloud layers tend to be thin so you have high chances of only a thin layer, hopefully above MSA and below freezing level
to just fly IFR at a suitable altitude without filing it and get radar cover as & when available as we do here sometimes??
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3FallinFlyer
IFR in France means you need a full IR, in which case you should have been taught (maybe not, I am FAA and have never done the JAA IR) about Eurocontrol and the route planning system.
You can file whatever route is accepted by Eurocontrol
http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.be/chmi_...p?serv1=ifpuvs
The route you will actually fly is likely to differ from filed.
There is no official "autorouting" facility for Europe but you can get close with this free site
http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/
Alternatively, Jeppesen Flitestar will generate a rough route based on SRDs and CDRs only.
Routings to W France are usually easy enough to work out; much easier than going to central Europe for example. I have had Flitestar routings work straight away.
The airway MEAs in Europe are usually FL060 or higher, regardless of there being any obstacle- or navaid-reception-related reason for it. This is one issue with IFR generally and around Europe specifically - you generally need an aircraft capable of flying VMC on top, to avoid enroute icing and for a much nicer flight.
The Class E "airways" in France (which incidentally are flyable VFR also, below FL110 or so) are usually based at FL065.
If you want to go low level it will have to be VFR.
France is covered with military airspace and that alone prevents UK-style VFR random routings at low levels, say 2000-3000ft. One can do it but it needs a lot of weird route planning, with the SIA 1:1M charts and the accompanying handbook. There are also their nuclear station RAs! If you go VFR, the "airways" are the best way to go because they are positioned to avoid all that stuff.
One can route from the UK VFR, low level, via something like ... VIREX LA LUGEN.
Beware though if VFR. La Rochelle had/has have a very aggressive ATCO who will give you VRPs which are not on the chart and goes berserk if you can't find them. They have a specific circuit pattern which must be flown. Email me if you want any info.
IFR in France means you need a full IR, in which case you should have been taught (maybe not, I am FAA and have never done the JAA IR) about Eurocontrol and the route planning system.
You can file whatever route is accepted by Eurocontrol
http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.be/chmi_...p?serv1=ifpuvs
The route you will actually fly is likely to differ from filed.
There is no official "autorouting" facility for Europe but you can get close with this free site
http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/
Alternatively, Jeppesen Flitestar will generate a rough route based on SRDs and CDRs only.
Routings to W France are usually easy enough to work out; much easier than going to central Europe for example. I have had Flitestar routings work straight away.
The airway MEAs in Europe are usually FL060 or higher, regardless of there being any obstacle- or navaid-reception-related reason for it. This is one issue with IFR generally and around Europe specifically - you generally need an aircraft capable of flying VMC on top, to avoid enroute icing and for a much nicer flight.
The Class E "airways" in France (which incidentally are flyable VFR also, below FL110 or so) are usually based at FL065.
If you want to go low level it will have to be VFR.
France is covered with military airspace and that alone prevents UK-style VFR random routings at low levels, say 2000-3000ft. One can do it but it needs a lot of weird route planning, with the SIA 1:1M charts and the accompanying handbook. There are also their nuclear station RAs! If you go VFR, the "airways" are the best way to go because they are positioned to avoid all that stuff.
One can route from the UK VFR, low level, via something like ... VIREX LA LUGEN.
Beware though if VFR. La Rochelle had/has have a very aggressive ATCO who will give you VRPs which are not on the chart and goes berserk if you can't find them. They have a specific circuit pattern which must be flown. Email me if you want any info.
Does anyone know if its OK to file off airways IFR in france (using semicircular alt's of course) or to just fly IFR at a suitable altitude without filing it and get radar cover as & when available as we do here sometimes?? I was also thinking of filing airways to get into the system then asking for a more direct routing and lower altitude once en-route.
Any comments appreciated!!
Any comments appreciated!!
You may in principle fly IFR outside controlled airspace.
However, in practice I think French ATC tends to be less used to IFR outside controlled airspace, and when you ask for direct routing and lower altitude, you may get a "non".
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Where are you going from? I do that trip quite often and it is pretty easy airways. There is a very easy way of routing down SAM-N866-ORTAC cross the Jersey Zone the R14 N25 to NTS the leave the airway at LUSON. Most of the MEA for this is 6000ft. Whenever possible I stop on Guernsey or Jersey for fuel but you can cross the zone without stopping.
Apart from cold fronts it is pretty easy to get through the freezing layer and into clear air on top.
Return trip is the same pretty much, but with the NTS to DIN being all on the R14.
Apart from cold fronts it is pretty easy to get through the freezing layer and into clear air on top.
Return trip is the same pretty much, but with the NTS to DIN being all on the R14.
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Thanks for the info everyone - It looks as though airways is the simple way to go (as usual 
)
For info - I am flying an Arrow from Panshanger, N-Reg, IMC & FAA IR rated. I was planning to go non-stop from pans but could put in a fuel stop in the CI,s. Makes sense from a cost & comfort perspective.
)For info - I am flying an Arrow from Panshanger, N-Reg, IMC & FAA IR rated. I was planning to go non-stop from pans but could put in a fuel stop in the CI,s. Makes sense from a cost & comfort perspective.
