GA Blackbox
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: Euroland
GA Blackbox
Guys,
Why don't the FAA/CAA mandate that all glass cockpit GA aircraft record data (i.e. blackbox). Surely this would be a MASSIVE move forward in terms of GA safety. Another note, it would only take a few days to write the code that records the data. I imagine this could be done without any additional cost to the end user - i.e. it just saves some data it already records. If it gets destroyed in the accident, well that's a downside to a "cheap fix" like this.
VT
Why don't the FAA/CAA mandate that all glass cockpit GA aircraft record data (i.e. blackbox). Surely this would be a MASSIVE move forward in terms of GA safety. Another note, it would only take a few days to write the code that records the data. I imagine this could be done without any additional cost to the end user - i.e. it just saves some data it already records. If it gets destroyed in the accident, well that's a downside to a "cheap fix" like this.
VT
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
Why do you think it would be a big step forward in aviation safety?
My experience is that in the vast majority of light aviation accidents, there is sufficient evidence to accurately determine the cause without recourse to largely unnecessary devices of this nature.
In any case, the vast majority of cheap EFIS systems like this do indeed keep a limited flight record anyhow (particularly anything involving a GPS received). Not necessarily user accessible, but accessible nonetheless.
G
My experience is that in the vast majority of light aviation accidents, there is sufficient evidence to accurately determine the cause without recourse to largely unnecessary devices of this nature.
In any case, the vast majority of cheap EFIS systems like this do indeed keep a limited flight record anyhow (particularly anything involving a GPS received). Not necessarily user accessible, but accessible nonetheless.
G
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,235
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From: Niort
Why?
Because it is completely pointless! We know why aircraft crash. It is almost always the 'nut at the wheel'. We even know how the nut at the wheel malfunctions - the causes of accidents have remained rought the same for the last 40 years. The PPL syllabus has been tinkered with but largely to no avail in terms of making pilots better decision makers or 'landers'.
So a great technical advance looking for a problem......
Because it is completely pointless! We know why aircraft crash. It is almost always the 'nut at the wheel'. We even know how the nut at the wheel malfunctions - the causes of accidents have remained rought the same for the last 40 years. The PPL syllabus has been tinkered with but largely to no avail in terms of making pilots better decision makers or 'landers'.
So a great technical advance looking for a problem......
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,359
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From: Midlands
My own aircraft has a Garmin 196 gps and a Stationmaster engine monitor, no exactly state of the art but;
The GPS stores my last 15 hours worth of track data, including time and all manor of other bits which can be downloaded to Navbox and Flitelog as required. The Stratomaster stores the last 15 min of engine parameters (about 20 items).
I do not think this is a huge step forward for flight safety, but the engine data alone could be very valuable in proving why it failed and allowing mods to stop it happening again.
Rod1
The GPS stores my last 15 hours worth of track data, including time and all manor of other bits which can be downloaded to Navbox and Flitelog as required. The Stratomaster stores the last 15 min of engine parameters (about 20 items).
I do not think this is a huge step forward for flight safety, but the engine data alone could be very valuable in proving why it failed and allowing mods to stop it happening again.
Rod1
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
The AAIB routinely extracts the data (track and altitudes) from handheld GPS units salvaged from aircraft wreckage, but they can't do it if the wreckage is burnt out or sunk to the bottom of the Marianas Trench 
I also don't think IFR panel mounts record anything.
I do somewhat disagree with Genghis' suggestion that correct determination of the cause is routine. I have read loads of AAIB reports and I think they are full of holes. On many, if you cut out the "informed speculation", there is actually very little left. I know nothing about accident investigation but I can tell if an investigator (or a solicitor or an accountant) is waffling.
I suppose one could argue it doesn't matter because "we all know" most accidents are pilot error and structural/control failure is very rare, so simply accusing the pilot by default yields the right answer 95% of the time, but that doesn't make it right.
A proper black box which can withstand a fire would make the Mode S debate look like a picnic. They cost five figures plus, AFAIK, and are quite heavy.
I also don't think IFR panel mounts record anything.
I do somewhat disagree with Genghis' suggestion that correct determination of the cause is routine. I have read loads of AAIB reports and I think they are full of holes. On many, if you cut out the "informed speculation", there is actually very little left. I know nothing about accident investigation but I can tell if an investigator (or a solicitor or an accountant) is waffling.
I suppose one could argue it doesn't matter because "we all know" most accidents are pilot error and structural/control failure is very rare, so simply accusing the pilot by default yields the right answer 95% of the time, but that doesn't make it right.
A proper black box which can withstand a fire would make the Mode S debate look like a picnic. They cost five figures plus, AFAIK, and are quite heavy.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 760
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From: Rural England, thank God.
Black box + Mode S ! - reduce the payload so much that many strips will become only suitable for walking the dog. Let us keep a sense of proportion about the risks concerned.
As far as I remember, UK GA fatalities are fairly static at 16-18p.a., so what's the rush to add cost and weight?
Skua
As far as I remember, UK GA fatalities are fairly static at 16-18p.a., so what's the rush to add cost and weight?
Skua
