Prop swinging!
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Prop swinging!
Having bought a share an L4 Cub that is hand start,and having been shown two ways of swinging the prop,what are your views?
I'm right handed.
a)Stand in front of prop,put right foot forward and step back and away as you swing through.
b)Stand behind prop,hold window frame with left hand,chock wheel with left foot and swing through and back with right hand.
The second way allows instant access to the throttle and mag switches so may become my preferred method.
Lister
I'm right handed.
a)Stand in front of prop,put right foot forward and step back and away as you swing through.
b)Stand behind prop,hold window frame with left hand,chock wheel with left foot and swing through and back with right hand.
The second way allows instant access to the throttle and mag switches so may become my preferred method.
Lister
I also have a L4 CUB. with an A65 engine. I have always swung the prop from the front ( with Chocks in place) I have never been happy with the other method. Having said that I know of other people who use the "behind the prop" method all the time. I guess it just depends on what you feel happier with.
Enjoy your flying
Enjoy your flying
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I'm left handed but when swinging from in front use my left hand, stepping away as my hand comes down, seems to be the most natural action. When propping a Gipsy or similar using my left hand.
On floats the swinging from behind is the only possible method but with a lot of aircraft there is no room to do it. Its easy with the Cub and A65s usually start well so that is the method I would use in your case.
On floats the swinging from behind is the only possible method but with a lot of aircraft there is no room to do it. Its easy with the Cub and A65s usually start well so that is the method I would use in your case.
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Lister - on my similar a/c, I always swung from the front. The first few times I actually tied the tail down - as I was so worried about her jumping the chocks!
I'd also advocate putting your left hand on your ass - so you know where it is! Next time we go out for a pint, I'll show you my broken knuckle so that you can learn from my mistake and not repeat it!!
Flew twice this eve, landed at 1810. I reckon it was 50mph at 2000'. Home o/h to Beccles o/h, 3 mins 14!!
Stik
I'd also advocate putting your left hand on your ass - so you know where it is! Next time we go out for a pint, I'll show you my broken knuckle so that you can learn from my mistake and not repeat it!!
Flew twice this eve, landed at 1810. I reckon it was 50mph at 2000'. Home o/h to Beccles o/h, 3 mins 14!!
Stik
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Lister,
From the front. The A65 (our A65) requires little more than just pulling the prop through but a nice firm footing is still required though, and hand behind back as Stik suggests. After priming I also cut the fuel off, leaves enough time to stroll round to turn it back on, but if the inconceivable did happen and it jumped the chocks, it wouldn't get very far.
I reckon there are two main types of solo hand starters, those who have forgotten to take the chocks out once strapped in...and those about too
From the front. The A65 (our A65) requires little more than just pulling the prop through but a nice firm footing is still required though, and hand behind back as Stik suggests. After priming I also cut the fuel off, leaves enough time to stroll round to turn it back on, but if the inconceivable did happen and it jumped the chocks, it wouldn't get very far.
I reckon there are two main types of solo hand starters, those who have forgotten to take the chocks out once strapped in...and those about too
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I use both methods. If I'm swinging a Cub for someone else (i.e there's a pilot in the back seat) I do it from the front. If I'm on my own, from behind for quick access to throttle and mags if required.
SSD
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And this is really the crux of the matter. After working in the airline business for 5 years, one thing I learned is that "safety" is highly subjective and often based more on opinion than anything else. Any time someone wanted a pet project to get done, they'd wrap it in the safety cloak but usually couldn't point to any clear effect it would have on safety of operations or people.
I'm not taking anything away from Chuck's statement, but it's right at the heart of the matter. The reason I believe that there is even a discussion on this is that there is no clear difference in what makes in-front any more or less safe than from-behind (so to speak). "It's safer" without any qualifying remarks as to why doesn't actually make a case.
For my money, people have been doing it both ways for generations with an acceptable level of safety so there's probably nothing really in it. I prefer propping the Tcraft from in front because I don't feel like I can get a comfortable grab on the prop from the back. But my mate props it from behind all the time.
Pitts2112
I'm not taking anything away from Chuck's statement, but it's right at the heart of the matter. The reason I believe that there is even a discussion on this is that there is no clear difference in what makes in-front any more or less safe than from-behind (so to speak). "It's safer" without any qualifying remarks as to why doesn't actually make a case.
For my money, people have been doing it both ways for generations with an acceptable level of safety so there's probably nothing really in it. I prefer propping the Tcraft from in front because I don't feel like I can get a comfortable grab on the prop from the back. But my mate props it from behind all the time.
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Lister,
Good to hear you are now cubbing. My VP1 (RIP) came with two chocks on a piece of rope. Before starting, the chocks were placed in front of the wheels and the ropes fed to the cockpit. That way you could remove them once you were safely seated in the cockpit with the engine running, I always thought this a good idea.
Although, for the VP1 this might not have been needed. A blade of grass performed the same function as a chock...it was marginally powered as Stik will tell you.
We used to prop from the front...it still was a bugger to start..swearing a lot seemed to help.
On the Laser I have fitted electonic ignition instead of one magneto. Wow, what a change, no hot start problems at all. The spark will spark for 1/2 inch even moving the prop very slowly.
Good to hear you are now cubbing. My VP1 (RIP) came with two chocks on a piece of rope. Before starting, the chocks were placed in front of the wheels and the ropes fed to the cockpit. That way you could remove them once you were safely seated in the cockpit with the engine running, I always thought this a good idea.
Although, for the VP1 this might not have been needed. A blade of grass performed the same function as a chock...it was marginally powered as Stik will tell you.
We used to prop from the front...it still was a bugger to start..swearing a lot seemed to help.
On the Laser I have fitted electonic ignition instead of one magneto. Wow, what a change, no hot start problems at all. The spark will spark for 1/2 inch even moving the prop very slowly.
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I used to own an L4 Cub. If I had a PPL passenger, I'd swing from the front with him/her holding stick back etc. Always chocked it though.
With any other passenger, or if solo, I'd always swing it from the back of the prop with my right hand, left hand holding door frame and able to get to the throttle. Again, always chocked it and tied stick back as well. But double check everything especially throttle settings after blowing out sessions.......!
One thing i would stress is get to know your engine... I knew that my L4 would start with the throttle closed, so no mystery about the throttle settings.
As always, there will always be people who have a better safety culture than others, and there will always be hand swinging incidents. But if you take all precautions, it's as safe as it can be.
And to the guy who always knows best who regularly hand swings his Stampe with his worried looking young (5?) son in the front cockpit, no chocks, stick not tied back etc etc, I hope his first solo flight is after his 16th Birthday
P.S. for those in countries with a crazy H&S culture, make sure you wear ear defenders (noisy!), a safety helmet (may fall into prop), thick gloves(cut fingers), Safety glasses (particles blown into your eyes), ballistic trousers (cuts to legs) etc etc. See a counsellor after every start in case you may have been affected by prop swinging issues.
With any other passenger, or if solo, I'd always swing it from the back of the prop with my right hand, left hand holding door frame and able to get to the throttle. Again, always chocked it and tied stick back as well. But double check everything especially throttle settings after blowing out sessions.......!
One thing i would stress is get to know your engine... I knew that my L4 would start with the throttle closed, so no mystery about the throttle settings.
As always, there will always be people who have a better safety culture than others, and there will always be hand swinging incidents. But if you take all precautions, it's as safe as it can be.
And to the guy who always knows best who regularly hand swings his Stampe with his worried looking young (5?) son in the front cockpit, no chocks, stick not tied back etc etc, I hope his first solo flight is after his 16th Birthday
P.S. for those in countries with a crazy H&S culture, make sure you wear ear defenders (noisy!), a safety helmet (may fall into prop), thick gloves(cut fingers), Safety glasses (particles blown into your eyes), ballistic trousers (cuts to legs) etc etc. See a counsellor after every start in case you may have been affected by prop swinging issues.
VW on SR4 mags. Couldn't get it to fire from either side.
VW now with Leburg electronic variable-timing ignition. Wood prop and no flywheel. Swing it from behind whilst holding onto the strut (won't fall into prop) and it will always fire on the first stroke and then idles at 480 - 580 rpm. Wheel rims tied to lift struts with thin rope so that they cannot roll forwards without tightening rope. Quick release knots allow swinging and then releasing of rope after strapping in.
8 fingers and 2 thumbs.
VW now with Leburg electronic variable-timing ignition. Wood prop and no flywheel. Swing it from behind whilst holding onto the strut (won't fall into prop) and it will always fire on the first stroke and then idles at 480 - 580 rpm. Wheel rims tied to lift struts with thin rope so that they cannot roll forwards without tightening rope. Quick release knots allow swinging and then releasing of rope after strapping in.
8 fingers and 2 thumbs.
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With regard to my comment on the safety issues of hand propping a Cub from behind the prop.
My first job was flying a Cub crop spraying in southern Ontario.
We were taught to hand prop it from behind for these reasons.
(1) You are behind the propellor and not in front of it if for some reason it starts at high RPM.
(2) Being behind it you have a grip on the airplane to counter balance the force of pulling the prop through. This is the same on wheels or floats..in fact I have never met anyone who hand props a Cub on floats standing in front of the prop.
(3) If for any reason you need to stop the engine or throttle it back you can reach the controls.
There are other issues surrounding hand propping but those are the main safety related ones for me, but remember the above is only my opinion and must be taken in that context.
Chuck E.
My first job was flying a Cub crop spraying in southern Ontario.
We were taught to hand prop it from behind for these reasons.
(1) You are behind the propellor and not in front of it if for some reason it starts at high RPM.
(2) Being behind it you have a grip on the airplane to counter balance the force of pulling the prop through. This is the same on wheels or floats..in fact I have never met anyone who hand props a Cub on floats standing in front of the prop.
(3) If for any reason you need to stop the engine or throttle it back you can reach the controls.
There are other issues surrounding hand propping but those are the main safety related ones for me, but remember the above is only my opinion and must be taken in that context.
Chuck E.
