TSA's Alien Flight Training/Citizenship Validation Rule

[Mitra]

what if I'm on H1 visa

I'm on H1 visa and want to start flight training. Any suggestions ?
Can it have negative effect on my green card processing ?
Following note from TSA looks kinda scary....:
> The TSA website FAQ - states in no uncertain terms:
> Taking flight training without an appropriate visa is a violation of your immigration
> status and could result in your arrest and removal from the United States; therefore, it
> is important that you have a visa that permits you to take flight training in the United.
Best Regards,
-- DC

[Mitra]

Thanks for answering, sounds very reasonable...

Originally Posted by ca_flyer

I'm guessing that if you have an H1-B, that you are being sponsored by your employer for a few years as you would be considered to be in a 'specialised category for employment' i.e. in your specific field of work

........

........

[OVC002]

There are always those who interpret the regs in the most proscriptive manner.

Let's examine the case of an individual wishing to enter the US for a two day course in, for arguments sake, Origami.

Try asking your local US Embassy if you are eligible for an M1 visa to follow a course of training in "Origami" that, in its entirety, will total less than 12 hours.

I know what the answer is by the way.

If the requirements are as restrictive as some here would have us believe, then it would be impossible for a NRA to gain the ME rating in the USA. On the one hand an M1 would be essential, but on the other hand the applicant would be ineligible.

It is in the interest of part 141 schools to perpetuate the idea that M1 is an absolute requirement.

So they do.

[fly_sd]

Originally Posted by Mitra

I'm on H1 visa and want to start flight training. Any suggestions ?
Can it have negative effect on my green card processing ?
Following note from TSA looks kinda scary....:
> The TSA website FAQ - states in no uncertain terms:
> Taking flight training without an appropriate visa is a violation of your immigration
> status and could result in your arrest and removal from the United States; therefore, it
> is important that you have a visa that permits you to take flight training in the United.
Best Regards,
-- DC

You are allowed to study while on an H1-B without a special visa and so I would imagine flight training would also be considered a course of study. In fact if you did not know already you are entitled to take courses at the local colleges at the local rate for residents if you have lived in the state of CA for at least one year. You will of course have to get the TSA thing done just like green card holders have to. One interesting thing I found out is that regarding frnger printing - you can have the local police do your fingerprints for much cheaper than the flight schools ($6 vs $75 here at Poway police) but it would be a bit more long winded as the TSA would have to send the FP cards to you and then you have to get the FPs done yourself.

[421C]

this is a tough question.

As far as I see it there are 6 factors

1. TSA Category - Is is Cat 3 or higher training?
2. School type - Is it a Part 141 school?
3. Duration - Are you there for a longer period (eg. more than a 1-2 week vacation or business trip)
4. Intensity - Is it more than 18hrs/week
5. Your status - Are you a "student" (eg. someone taking time off work to become a pilot)
6. Course nature - Is it a formal course of study?

If the answer to any of the above is yes, then you very likely need a Visa, certainly in the case of Q1 (due to the TSA interpretation) and in Q2 if enrolling in a 141 course rather than doing ad-hoc training at a 141 school. However, if

- it is Cat 4 training (no TSA approval)
- it is Part 61
- you visit is short and you are not a "student" but a business person taking vacation time to go to the US
- you are not enrolling in a course of study

then I think there is not a visa requirement, subject to all the caveats and interpretations. Certainly that is the view of schools I have spoken to.
In JAA-land we are programmed to think of formal courses with approvals etc for everything. Remember in the US the CPL upgrade, CFI-MEI-CFII ratings have no "course" requirement at all in Part 61. You turn up at a Part 61 school and buy some ad-hoc training to get an endorsement and take a check ride, you read books to take a Computer based knowledge test - that is not enrolling in a course of study in my mind.

rgds
421C

[Tim_CPL]

Visa's

Just a clarifying point - you cannot hold multiple visas, at least per my lawyer in Houston. I asked this exact question (do I need an M1 to study for my PPL when I am here on an L1)? Answer - only one visa is valid at any one time, and the L1 (and H1) allows a course of study (including PPL). You are admitted to the US under a visa class, you can adjust to another, but only one class is valid at any given point in time.

This was before the TSA alien flight training rules kicked in and before I got my green card.

- Tim

[Mitra]

I've found some official-looking regulations on that matter:
http://www.nafinet.org/news/2005%20-...sTraining.html

Summary (flight training under Category 1, 2, or 3 / 49 CFR 1552.3):
NO flight training under on B1/B2.
MAY train if on H-1, Green card.
MAY train if on M-1 or F-1 + student has notified SEVIS, or in non SEVIS school.

-- Cheers, Mitra

[slim_slag]

Originally Posted by Mitra

I've found some official-looking regulations on that matter

That's just a web page. The official document is the Federal Registry (PDF) and I'm afraid it still all boils down to whether a PPL/IR/ME is a "course of study" as defined in US immigration law, which is 18 or 22 hours a week depending on how much is in the classroom.