I infringed today . . .
Joined: May 2006
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From: UK
Originally Posted by QDMQDMQDM
This is total bollox, as far as I'm concerned.
I fail to understand why GPS appears to excite such anti feelings. It's an extraordinary aid to navigation. People who decry it in the ways expressed here are like people who don't like these new-fangled aileron things and think we should stick with wing-warping.
Get real: a moving map, GPS, in a split second glance, will tell you exactly where you are on the planet and which direction you're moving and how fast. What, for God's sake, is wrong with that? Why is it viewed as 'cheating'?
I fail to understand why GPS appears to excite such anti feelings. It's an extraordinary aid to navigation. People who decry it in the ways expressed here are like people who don't like these new-fangled aileron things and think we should stick with wing-warping.
Get real: a moving map, GPS, in a split second glance, will tell you exactly where you are on the planet and which direction you're moving and how fast. What, for God's sake, is wrong with that? Why is it viewed as 'cheating'?
A 7000 squawk was tracking west to east just north of the London Zone boundary at 3,500ft, on a steady track from airfield A out west to airfield B in the London area, affecting a number of fairly busy airfields en-route, you can probably figure out which ones.
After landing the pilot stated the reason for the infringement was a problem with his moving map GPS.
I certainly don't decry the use of GPS, but despite the fact that it is carried and used more often than not these days the fact remains that pilots, for whatever reason, are still managing to get themselves into places they are not meant to be whilst carrying and using GPS.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: New South Wales
A recent infringement caused a number of problems in the TMA.
A 7000 squawk was tracking west to east just north of the London Zone boundary at 3,500ft, on a steady track from airfield A out west to airfield B in the London area, affecting a number of fairly busy airfields en-route, you can probably figure out which ones.
After landing the pilot stated the reason for the infringement was a problem with his moving map GPS.
I certainly don't decry the use of GPS, but despite the fact that it is carried and used more often than not these days the fact remains that pilots, for whatever reason, are still managing to get themselves into places they are not meant to be whilst carrying and using GPS.
A 7000 squawk was tracking west to east just north of the London Zone boundary at 3,500ft, on a steady track from airfield A out west to airfield B in the London area, affecting a number of fairly busy airfields en-route, you can probably figure out which ones.
After landing the pilot stated the reason for the infringement was a problem with his moving map GPS.
I certainly don't decry the use of GPS, but despite the fact that it is carried and used more often than not these days the fact remains that pilots, for whatever reason, are still managing to get themselves into places they are not meant to be whilst carrying and using GPS.
The problem was infintely less likely to be the GPS itself than the pilot and haven't we got a crystal clear argument here for teaching students the correct way to use a GPS, rather than completely ignoring this form of 'illicit' unmentionable navigation during training and then expecting newly trained pilots to sort it out for themselves?
We teach children about sex these days (gasp, horror!) for exactly the same reason: so they can do things sensibly and responsibly, with due regard for the consequences and take the appropriate precautions.
Some people need to wake up and smell the coffee and stop living in the 1950s.
I apologise (slightly) for the irascible tone of my posts on this thread, but I find some of the attitudes expressed intolerably archaic and sanctimonious.
QDM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 74
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From: Oxfordshire
Hi Stik
Thanks for starting this thread.
I had my first solo last week at Denham and our local training area is the same as where you got a bit lost. It's certainly not the easiest bit of the UK to fly around as I have found whilst practising nav with my instructor. I think I'll be going out there alone at some point soon and your post has reminded me to keep a close eye on the map/wind/disused airfields etc. I'm also going to ask my instructor to take me through a training D&D fix with the nice people on 121.5 next week just in case I have similar problems to you in the future (I know one of my "land aways" for the QXC will possibly be Cranfield so it can only help!).
I do hope you feel better about the experience now especially following the positive responses from ATC on this thread. It has certainly made me feel more able to call them in future if I become unsure of my position.
Cheers
Andy
Thanks for starting this thread.
I had my first solo last week at Denham and our local training area is the same as where you got a bit lost. It's certainly not the easiest bit of the UK to fly around as I have found whilst practising nav with my instructor. I think I'll be going out there alone at some point soon and your post has reminded me to keep a close eye on the map/wind/disused airfields etc. I'm also going to ask my instructor to take me through a training D&D fix with the nice people on 121.5 next week just in case I have similar problems to you in the future (I know one of my "land aways" for the QXC will possibly be Cranfield so it can only help!).
I do hope you feel better about the experience now especially following the positive responses from ATC on this thread. It has certainly made me feel more able to call them in future if I become unsure of my position.
Cheers
Andy
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 156
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From: manchester
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/g...re/5286456.stm
slightly OT. but just shows what can happen when you only use 1 source of infomation.
slightly OT. but just shows what can happen when you only use 1 source of infomation.
Joined: Nov 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 12,458
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From: Wildest Surrey
Had one a couple of hours ago; SR22 northbound when told to avoid Dunsfold TRA, couldn't find Dunsfold on chart or GPS until I told him where to look in relation to MID; even when he spotted it he nearly didn't avoid the 3nm radius TRA.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 676
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From: london
Stik, well done on your pass!! Enjoy the flying and, if this is any comfort to you, read my earlier thread
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ight=wsmempson
It happens to most of us at some point or other; hopefully we move on older and wiser. Incidentally, I've since bought a GPS (and a Cherokee 140) but resisted the GPS until I had 100 hrs of steam driven navigation under my belt!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ight=wsmempson
It happens to most of us at some point or other; hopefully we move on older and wiser. Incidentally, I've since bought a GPS (and a Cherokee 140) but resisted the GPS until I had 100 hrs of steam driven navigation under my belt!
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10
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From: Berkshire
Thanks to everyone for the comments . . . it took a while to 'get over' but I did get over it and have now gone on to pass the final test. An enduring lesson was learned and perversley, I think I will make a better pilot for it having happened.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Looking for the signals square at LHR
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
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From: Europe
Stik
Well done on getting your licence.
You learned a big lesson the hard way. Your instructor has to take some of the wrap for this one.
Nobody should have to go through an experience like this to be a better pilot for it.
The CAA's attitude towards GPS is a joke. Sadly enough not a funny one.
The day that something serious like this goes wrong with a less favourable outcome will be the day that the non aviating British people will rightly ask how it is possible that pilots do not get trained in using a navigation aid that enables them, when used properly, to establish their position and route within a couple of feet.
Well done on getting your licence.
You learned a big lesson the hard way. Your instructor has to take some of the wrap for this one.
Nobody should have to go through an experience like this to be a better pilot for it.
The CAA's attitude towards GPS is a joke. Sadly enough not a funny one.
The day that something serious like this goes wrong with a less favourable outcome will be the day that the non aviating British people will rightly ask how it is possible that pilots do not get trained in using a navigation aid that enables them, when used properly, to establish their position and route within a couple of feet.
