sharing a ride?
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I was at Clacton yesterday doing my tailwheel conversion,having a sandwich out in the sunshine when a chap walked up,asked if I was a pilot and would I like to take him up and share the cost.
I told him to ask in the clubhouse as they do private flights.
I would not take somebody up that I didn't know,and those friends that I do I don't ask to pay!
What is the legal aspect of all this?
Lister
I told him to ask in the clubhouse as they do private flights.
I would not take somebody up that I didn't know,and those friends that I do I don't ask to pay!
What is the legal aspect of all this?
Lister
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bigots
I don't know about NZ but (in general terms), in the UK..........
A PPL is permitted to share the cost of a flight with passengers provided there are no more than 4 people on board and the pilot pays his/her proportion of the cost. ie 2 people - pilot must pay at least half, 3 - pilot must pay at least a third etc. (The passengers can share the balance as they wish.)
Whether a club would allow a hopeful passenger to put up an ad asking for a ride and offering to share the cost would depend on the club.
There's a little more two it, but those are the main points.
Lister Noble
I'm puzzled by your .
Does it mean the club does private flights when it's not legally allowed to, or that you thought it was a clever answer to give someone who made a perfectly reasonable enquiry?
Good for you! You're lucky to be in that position.
Many private pilots aren't as well off and share costs with friends who are willing and able to pay - to their mutual advantage.
Some couldn't afford to fly (or do as much flying) if they didn't do so.
FL
I don't know about NZ but (in general terms), in the UK..........
A PPL is permitted to share the cost of a flight with passengers provided there are no more than 4 people on board and the pilot pays his/her proportion of the cost. ie 2 people - pilot must pay at least half, 3 - pilot must pay at least a third etc. (The passengers can share the balance as they wish.)
Whether a club would allow a hopeful passenger to put up an ad asking for a ride and offering to share the cost would depend on the club.
There's a little more two it, but those are the main points.
Lister Noble
I'm puzzled by your
.Does it mean the club does private flights when it's not legally allowed to, or that you thought it was a clever answer to give someone who made a perfectly reasonable enquiry?
those friends that I do I don't ask to pay!
Many private pilots aren't as well off and share costs with friends who are willing and able to pay - to their mutual advantage.
Some couldn't afford to fly (or do as much flying) if they didn't do so.
FL
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FL,
I was not being flippant and am definitely not rich.
I was asking the legal aspect of someone I've never met before, literally walking in off the street and asking me to take him up in a club aircraft.
A club of which I am a temporary member doing a short conversion course in a club aircraft.
He told me that he did this at several clubs as he could not afford to have lessons but still wanted to fly.
You may be more trusting than me but I certainly would not take someone flying of whom I know absolutley nothing,and met 5 mins ago.
Lister
I was not being flippant and am definitely not rich.
I was asking the legal aspect of someone I've never met before, literally walking in off the street and asking me to take him up in a club aircraft.
A club of which I am a temporary member doing a short conversion course in a club aircraft.
He told me that he did this at several clubs as he could not afford to have lessons but still wanted to fly.
You may be more trusting than me but I certainly would not take someone flying of whom I know absolutley nothing,and met 5 mins ago.
Lister
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Think i agree with lister on this one. If its someone off the street so to speak, they could be up to anything, especially in the current climate
Legally i think you wouldnt be breaking any laws, but discretion was well applied imho.
Legally i think you wouldnt be breaking any laws, but discretion was well applied imho.
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On the few occassions I have taken friends and my wife flying in a club hire craft since recently obtaining my licence,they have had to sign some sort of temporary club membership thing to do with insurance.
This has not cost anything but is required by the club,so if you take someone up without doing this what are the implications?
There must be some,or surely it would not be a requirement?
Sensible,constructive answers only please
Lister
This has not cost anything but is required by the club,so if you take someone up without doing this what are the implications?
There must be some,or surely it would not be a requirement?
Sensible,constructive answers only please
Lister
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That is only an indemnity form to try to limit the liability on behalf of the club if you have a prang in it. In fact it has little standing
You might find that if you are using a club aircraft, the Standing Orders tell you what the Club's policy is regarding passengers.
If it is your own aircraft, what you choose to do is up to you
You might find that if you are using a club aircraft, the Standing Orders tell you what the Club's policy is regarding passengers.
If it is your own aircraft, what you choose to do is up to you
Hovering AND talking
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I can't see the difference between a "stranger off the street" and a friend - after all, aren't strangers only friends we haven't yet met?
Legally though, I don't think there is any difference. If your club has its own rules that's different but if I was in that situation (and I have been), I'd take the person up.
I Self-Fly Hire from a school and they have never asked who (or what!) my passengers are or what the financial arrangements are.
As far as I was aware, the PPL who is prepared to cost-share is not permitted to advertise but if someone wanted to cost-share, then I can't see why they can't put up a card.
Cheers
Whirls
Legally though, I don't think there is any difference. If your club has its own rules that's different but if I was in that situation (and I have been), I'd take the person up.
I Self-Fly Hire from a school and they have never asked who (or what!) my passengers are or what the financial arrangements are.
As far as I was aware, the PPL who is prepared to cost-share is not permitted to advertise but if someone wanted to cost-share, then I can't see why they can't put up a card.
Cheers
Whirls
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I feel I am being vilified,so to clarify my position on all this and retrieve my character.
I do not charge my friends as I have had around 25 hours in a Chipmunk and Tiger Moth over the last two years completely free of charge from a friend.
Someone I met through my work and I don't know well has asked me if I would take him up, he offered to pay the full one hour hire charge.
In his case I told him I will share the cost,ie £62.50 each.
Lister
I do not charge my friends as I have had around 25 hours in a Chipmunk and Tiger Moth over the last two years completely free of charge from a friend.
Someone I met through my work and I don't know well has asked me if I would take him up, he offered to pay the full one hour hire charge.
In his case I told him I will share the cost,ie £62.50 each.
Lister
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Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
Does it mean the club does private flights when it's not legally allowed to
FL
FL
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I'll come to young Lister's defence on this one. I'd be inclined to take perfect strangers up (and, in fact, have done so when I thought it was possible to convert them from a fence sentry into a PPL), but that's after sizing the person up a bit and having a bit of a chat. It would also depend on how the person asked. I probably wouldn't charge for it as I look at it as part of the aviation ambassadorial role we all share, but I might take a few quid for fuel if offered. You do have to be a bit careful with people you don't really know, if for no other reason then to try to understand how they're likely to react once in the air. Are they prone to motion sickness? Are they nervous generally?
Also, there is the issue of the profit-making side of things. How touchy is the main operator about taking up someone who might easily be a paying trial lesson? That's not been a problem at the two main bases I've been at, but I could see how it might be sensitive at some.
On the other side of the coin, I've recently checked out in the Pitts S-2B and can't wait to take up passengers! Inviting people for a ride, especially if it's kind of a one-off, is a bit like a date. I'd expect to cover the cost as I'm the one that did the inviting. They can pick up lunch or the teas or whatever. If it became a regular thing, then we'd talk about sharing costs.
I think Lister was showing a bit of real-world prudence.
As always, justmy view. Your mileage (or endurance) may vary.
Pitts2112
Also, there is the issue of the profit-making side of things. How touchy is the main operator about taking up someone who might easily be a paying trial lesson? That's not been a problem at the two main bases I've been at, but I could see how it might be sensitive at some.
On the other side of the coin, I've recently checked out in the Pitts S-2B and can't wait to take up passengers! Inviting people for a ride, especially if it's kind of a one-off, is a bit like a date. I'd expect to cover the cost as I'm the one that did the inviting. They can pick up lunch or the teas or whatever. If it became a regular thing, then we'd talk about sharing costs.
I think Lister was showing a bit of real-world prudence.
As always, justmy view. Your mileage (or endurance) may vary.
Pitts2112
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I also agree with Lister.
I've taken a number of people that I didn't really know....but I almost always knew someone I trusted, who knew them well.
I've only one taken a complete stranger, and then I knew that they had a genuine interest in light aviation.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't take someone who walked over to me on the airfield and asked, but I would be very wary of it. If there was a flight school on the airfield offering trial lessons, I'd have to wonder why they weren't using that? Directing them there, as Lister did, would seem like a very sensible move.
A lot would also depend on your own experience level.....if you were a new PPL, or just low hours, or low currency......taking a complete stranger along for the ride (unexpectedly) might not be the best move.
I think Liser is being quite sensible here. (I also don't think you're being vilified either Lister )
I've taken a number of people that I didn't really know....but I almost always knew someone I trusted, who knew them well.
I've only one taken a complete stranger, and then I knew that they had a genuine interest in light aviation.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't take someone who walked over to me on the airfield and asked, but I would be very wary of it. If there was a flight school on the airfield offering trial lessons, I'd have to wonder why they weren't using that? Directing them there, as Lister did, would seem like a very sensible move.
A lot would also depend on your own experience level.....if you were a new PPL, or just low hours, or low currency......taking a complete stranger along for the ride (unexpectedly) might not be the best move.
I think Liser is being quite sensible here. (I also don't think you're being vilified either Lister
)
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Originally Posted by Pitts2112
How touchy is the main operator about taking up someone who might easily be a paying trial lesson? That's not been a problem at the two main bases I've been at, but I could see how it might be sensitive at some.
Pitts2112
Pitts2112
Its a neat balance to strike - to encourage new entrants, to help in our own costs but not to damage the commercial security of our clubs
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I suspect bigots was asking about hitch-hiking on aircraft. Rather more difficult nowadays but not too difficult in the past.
Don't feel guilty, they should feel grateful, after all who are they going to be going to for the lessons if they like it?
Apropos of taking strangers for a ride. She was blonde, German, and rather fetching. I joked to her boyfriend that we might visit a friend's private strip and hence be some time. He expressed surprise when I delivered her back 20 minutes later. Must improve my stamina
Actually, the operator at my field amde the point that if we keep nicking the paying customers, they won't be there for us in the future.
Its a neat balance to strike - to encourage new entrants, to help in our own costs but not to damage the commercial security of our clubs
Its a neat balance to strike - to encourage new entrants, to help in our own costs but not to damage the commercial security of our clubs
Apropos of taking strangers for a ride. She was blonde, German, and rather fetching. I joked to her boyfriend that we might visit a friend's private strip and hence be some time. He expressed surprise when I delivered her back 20 minutes later. Must improve my stamina
